Ten Tough Questions with the Hardest Working Man in Show Business - with Special Guest Jon Seaton

Ten Tough Questions v2
Sat, Feb 04, 2023 12:47PM • 26:08
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
seaton, people, cowboys, question, john, attention span, polling, mccain, data, years, egghead, answer, good, interesting, podcast, feel, friends, president, minutes, disagreed
SPEAKERS
Intro, Sam Fischer

Intro  00:00
Welcome to cowboys, not a gets home of the brave, not home of the fearful. The world needs more cowboys and fewer eggheads. We're everywhere podcasts are found. So tell your fellow cowboys, and let's keep the conversation alive on Instagram, Facebook, and Twitter. Remember to subscribe, rate, review and share. And now, cowboys, not egghead with Sam Fischer

Sam Fischer  00:33
welcome to the podcast, Jon Seaton, one of the only people who's ever begged me to be on the show. So here is Jon Seaton, my friend of many years, my former business called My third business partner that I've had on this podcast. The man that I've always affectionately known, or referred to as the busiest man in show business, the man that has the metabolism of a hummingbird, Jon Seaton. Now, Jon Seaton wanted to come on to this program. Is that correct? Am I lying? Okay, great to finally be here. Yes, yes. And of course, he's never even listened to an episode. And so it's very interesting to always listen, the first two, that's nice. We have 50 episodes he listened to the first two two years ago, has no idea the dialogue I've done the last two years. And so he wanted to be on so I had to come up with a premise for you to be on. So I figured it out the other night, and I have not shared with the world what this premise is with Seaton, but Well, actually, I did. We're gonna ask him 10 tough questions. And we're gonna call this thing. You 10 tough questions with the one of the best, you got the best. So thank you for being here. Jon Seaton.

01:43
Thank you for having me here.

Sam Fischer  01:44
You're such a good sport. Question number one. Why did you want to be on this podcast so badly?

01:51
Well, it seemed like this was something very important to you something that you put a lot of time into. You were passionate about it. You found each other real reason time. And if I'm being honest, I felt a little left out and a lot of people I know were on it. And I wasn't even asked.

Sam Fischer  02:08
Okay, now we're being honest. That that is it. Fist bump? Brah. Yeah, he he felt left out. So that's why he wanted to be on the podcast. Very good. Very good. Is Jon Seaton a cowboy? Or is Jon Seaton an egghead. Now you listen to the first two episodes where we laid those, those. Now you're gonna have to, you know, go back two years and remember what we talked about.

02:31
I think there's a perception because of kind of the way I sound because of my stature.

Sam Fischer  02:39
And now just keep in mind world that we have this this gentleman is a is from Berkeley, California. He's Jewish. He went to the University of Colorado, my mother's alma mater, because he's a buffaloes fan. And he is a Republican operative. So he's an interesting dude.

03:00
So I, I consider myself a cowboy. I consider myself somebody who I might not have. I may not be a master strategist or the greatest tech tactician. I'm not Karl Rove for people who are interested in Republican politics are James Carville, but I will put in the work, I will go it alone if I have to, and I'll get the job done. And I think when you talk about what a cowboy is, that's what that's what you look for in a cowboy. So I think so. Yeah. So I would consider myself a cow.

Sam Fischer  03:34
More cowboy. They got a little leg, everybody. Sure. Like we all do? Yes, we do. Yes, we do. Okay. Why do you admire me so much?

03:46
You have a code. You live by it, you know, waver from it. You still like the Raiders? For some reason? You are, you're loyal? And a lot of reasons. You got me into Meridian for some reason. And no, I look, I think, when you kind of choose to get to be an adult. We have fewer friends as adults than we do as kids and you kind of gravitate towards people who share the same values that you do and live life the way you do. And I think that you and I actually, despite many differences have a lot in common in our core.

Sam Fischer  04:26
Yeah, a lot more. I don't know what our differences are, honestly. We'd like to, we'd like to squabble some. Yeah. And thank you very much for answering that question with a straight face. I told him beforehand that every question was serious here. And it was not meant as a joke, so thank you for not laughing. It was a very lovely answer. It didn't take Thank you. Yes, sir. He was spinning. But thank you. It was very good spin in my benefit. Thank you. If I were president of the United States, what role would you Jon Seaton play In my administration,

05:02
probably your caddy.

Sam Fischer  05:05
Caddy my golf caddy. Really.

05:09
We get to go out, play golf, drink beer, argue about politics, it'd be fantastic. Really,

Sam Fischer  05:15
that's all you'd want to be, I'm present, you're not going to call me and say, Hey, I'd like you to consider me for this position.

05:21
Well, I probably ran your campaign. And you probably paid me very, very well. And, yeah, I think that's about right. I mean, we could we could we could we could find a gig in the West Wing, if you wanted to keep me around

Sam Fischer  05:37
some sort of verse or would

05:40
a counselor I look, I I've, I've had the opportunity or the honor to work for one presidential administration both at an agency as well as in

Sam Fischer  05:54
so you kind of know what it how it's all put together. I don't I've never worked for the White House you have.

05:58
And I think one thing I learned and again, I was not a high level staffer. I was mid level staffer. Nobody

Sam Fischer  06:04
you could say that you worked at the White House. Proximity matters. Exactly.

06:08
I would want to, I don't want, what I want is no matter what the job was, I'd want to be able to come in if I had something to say I want Oval Office privileges.

Sam Fischer  06:17
Ah, okay. Fair enough. Who is a better president, a cowboy or an A good?

06:26
Wow. Cowboy George W. Bush, Ronald Reagan to the best we've ever had.

Sam Fischer  06:33
And who lives example of an a good President Barack Obama. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. I remember reading a quote. He was kind of cowboys himself. They're buddies. I mean, he did a lot of things that people didn't do. He was he was a pioneer.

06:47
I remember seeing a quote, This was during his first term and I and I'll find it and send it cuz I don't remember where exactly I saw it. But it stuck with me. Because he was it was it was either a memo or he said it out loud to one of his advisors. And he said, if only people could understand all the good that I'm doing for them. And to me that like sums up kind of an egg head like yeah,

Sam Fischer  07:09
they just don't play has to egg gets have to be

07:13
adored. Right? And yes, and he didn't understand he just doing all this great stuff. Why don't they get it? Right. And that's on you, buddy. Like right, you know.

Sam Fischer  07:23
So our most of our presidents, cowboys are eggheads. We've got 46 of them now 46

07:30
of them. I'm not a presidential historian, but just off the top of my head. I think most were cowboys. I agree. I think most recap. I agree. Now the leaders of

Sam Fischer  07:39
this country, yes, right. I'm saying you have to be brave. You kind of have to do it along. Sometimes you have to be bold. Who is the favorite? Who's your favorite person you work for and your career? Of stop? This is the one question he really wanted to answer. So go ahead and give it

08:00
to us. Well, I've been my hero is John McCain, I worked for him from 2007 and eight when he ran for president. Some people may remember we fell short. And then I had the opportunity to work for him in 2010 in Israel act 2016, for his last real act, and then the sad honor of helping to plan and execute on his memorial in Arizona when we give him one final send off. He was my hero. And I think exemplifies what leadership is

Sam Fischer  08:35
okay. Well, that's Jon Seaton's resume, but you knew the guy. I mean, you knew him and he knew you. And he said, he's, you know, when he saw it, he said, Hi, Jon, or he said, Jon, what the hell's going on? Or whatever? Yeah. So tell us how you I mean, what was that like intimately knowing? I mean, I can put on my resume. I worked with the Bush administration to show but I don't know George W. Bush. You actually I mean, you actually know, or knew John McCain. I did. And so why, for instance, why was he misunderstood? yz? So misunderstood. I believe he's one of the most misunderstood people will last 20 years.

09:13
He didn't spend a lot of time this is not spin. But it's also true that and maybe it sounds like spin but it is true. He he didn't spend a lot of time polishing his resume, or or he wasn't, I mean, he was on every Sunday show you could ever ask. But he didn't spend a lot of time trying to like beg people to like him. What you saw was what you got. I mean, I did see him in private moments. I saw him on television. I saw him at the Republican National Convention. It was and I admired that about him, but it just was just it's just who he was. And you know what, take it or leave it. But what stuck with me about him and again, this was what he would say in private if you were had were here, just the three of us or if he were again, speaking to a large crowd. Is it to him In what service meant was living your life in the service of something greater than your own self interest. And to me that has stuck with me because you, we, you know, we all have limited time here and we can just, you know, try to make all the money we can or amass all the power we can or date all the women, whatever, whatever your metric is for success, personal success, but you take none of that with you. But if you can live your life in the service of something greater than yourself, that's legacy. And that's, that stays that stays after you're gone. And so that, and I think he's a living testament of that he's been gone for five years now. And we're still talking about him when we still kind of are fortunate that he was that he was with us.

Sam Fischer  10:48
So here's a interesting question. He was a man that if you strayed from what he thought was within his principles, he didn't take kindly to it, and he let you know about it. He let the public know about it. To example, one example comes to mind, and that is Chuck Hagel. They had a complicated relationship. I'm sure when Senator McCain died, they probably I don't know if they reconciled or not. But my guess is they? I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. So I mean, that that was I think that's a good example of Hegel just kind of well, I think Hagel broke his back when he supported McCain for president and all sudden he ran ran to Bush. I don't know that. That happened. 2000 Did it not just 2000? I don't think that sat well with them. And when Hagel was nominated as the Secretary of Defense, that was a rough hearing. Yes. Between old Vietnam friends right. Here any comments about that?

11:59
I don't think McCain ever questioned Hazel's would on say motives. I think he thought he was a patriot. In fact, during those same hearings, when I believe Senator Cruz was really going after Hagel, McCain said, Wait a minute. He's a patriot. Right? He's a patriot. But I think a lot of what I think it was complicated, and I think, you know, they they they differ greatly on matters of foreign policy. They differed greatly on the Iraq war, they differed greatly on the surge, and McCain was going to speak his mind. And I think he really thought that Hegel's view, possibly informed by his time in Vietnam, was just the wrong direction for American foreign policy. And it was they just passionately disagreed, and I honestly don't know if they ever reconciled before it became pass. So

Sam Fischer  12:56
one of the things interesting is one of his closest friends was Lindsey Graham. And it's kind of interesting to see the the path of Senator Graham as of the last six or eight years. Senator Graham was supporting the re election, or excuse me supporting the presidential campaign of Donald J. Trump now, which surprises me a great deal. What would McCain say about that?

13:25
I think McCain's view on Trump was president, former President Trump was this was pretty clear. I think he and Senator Graham disagreed on that. I still think they they remained friends until

Sam Fischer  13:40
Senator MCain was friends with Biden, was it? Yes, he was friends

13:44
of Biden Biden eulogized him in Phoenix. Right. Yeah. So it was a good example. And that this really is lost in a lot of American politics. You could disagree fiercely with somebody and still be their friend. We just don't see very much. Yeah, anymore used to you don't see that very much anymore. And it's probably too bad. Yeah, you can get a lot more done if you again kind of recognize the common good and somebody

Sam Fischer  14:09
Well, I mean, I you know, Orrin Hatch and Ted Kennedy were paps. We're like what it absolutely doesn't exist anymore. Well, I just I just That's a tough question. Thanks for answering it was a real tough one What was your worst mistake as a political operative or as a business owner or in business or

14:37
um, that's a really good question. It's very

Sam Fischer  14:39
tough to answer a tough I never supposed to admit any mistakes. Oh, my God, we're all human. We

14:47
all make we all make mistakes. You know, look, I think that I don't know if there's my worst mistake, I think a couple of times just misreading the political landscape on on or on erase things of one I would say the candidate His name but this was in the 2020 cycle. And interestingly enough, you had an at least I had kind of an intuition of the right way to go. But all the least available data said go another way. And we went with the data. And I do wonder if I had to just trust in my gut a little bit, if it would have been a different result. That's That's one. That's one that sticks with me, because I had that, you know, that that kind of fleeting moment, you've maybe got to do this. And it's like, no, because everything else the saying we should do that. Yeah, we do that. And then,

Sam Fischer  15:34
in 2016, presidential election was the most interesting I've ever been through. I mean, I was absolutely fooled on that one. You know, and it's the data. I mean, I don't know, by the way, that we're getting into an egg, that egg had thing, but right, you and I made a lot of strategic decisions. Based on data. It's very again, it's the most a good thing you can do in politics as a whole. And polling. I don't even know where I mean, I've been out of it for two years. And I know is from the years 2012 to when I got out. It changed dramatically. And yeah, the 16 election, there are actual respondents to polls that would not say they supported Trump simply because they didn't want anybody to know that they were supporting Trump. Right. Fascinating. Dynamic. What are your What are your thoughts about the old anti? Is polling antiquated? Is it a do you use it differently now than you ever did? Is it is it? What are your thoughts on the egghead methodology of polling,

16:41
I think you need to be very careful, you have to really drill down if you have if you're a campaign that has money to do focus groups to get kind of qualitative data to be able to read people's body language. I mean, you need to, like, all data, you know, cut down to it's like, if you're talking about statistics, in sports, all statistics is is all the stuff that happened when you're watching, right? Yeah, that's what data is.

Sam Fischer  17:10
It's like, my favorite

17:12
300 million people. My

Sam Fischer  17:13
favorite quote is, it's like the bikini it shows shows you a lot, but not everything.

17:19
That's another way to put it. And so yeah, you still need data, because you can't have individual conversations with 300,000 300 million people.

Sam Fischer  17:28
So how do you have how do you get your data these days? Can i Is that a top secret of yours? Or not? I mean, there's I mean, how polling you know, over the years, it's gone from you know, we used to just call people home yeah, that's law. I mean, if you don't, if you don't have I don't know 50 To 60 to 70% of your samples gotta be cell cell phone to and it's more expensive that way for a variety of reasons I won't go into but that was one change that was made but you know, there there are multiple ways to obtain data are you implementing things outside of the regular poll? You know, the you know, the 400 person sample Are you are you going are you doing digital surveys to supplement your daily?

18:14
Absolutely, I think you have to I think you have to do you have to do all of it you have to find people where they are people feel if they don't recognize a phone number unless they're you know, 70 plus a lot not everybody I want to pay to broader brush but I just won't answer the phone right? So

Sam Fischer  18:29
nobody answers the phone. You don't know who's calling and so you have to file even if you know is calling you don't answer the damn phone, you have to make a damn appointment. Some people that's like you almost impulse is gonna text somebody hey, can you can you take this call in five minutes? Right? So I mean, it's it's insane. It

18:44
is it is it is it is harder and harder to get people on the phone. So finding other ways to do it is important. supplementing that with focus groups is important. I mean, you can't do just one thing. And think that you're getting all the answers and I think the other thing you're seeing in the polling industry, which is very concerning, is the number of you know kind of I'll call them fly by night pollsters who use either robo calls or other very cheap methods they sell their polls cheap and those are picked up by the media because stuff to talk about. So you have to be very very careful in terms of what what data you're you're trusting at all and even then I trust my

Sam Fischer  19:18
data because I'm paying for it. I'm controlling it to the extent that I exact putting those those those things in motion question Question of the year the podcast you don't notice you don't listen to my frickin podcast listeners will know what it is. Jon Seaton, do you feel do you think or do you know? All the above? Oh, I see how convenient.

19:45
Well, that means I know. What do you know? I know I love my daughters Very good.

Sam Fischer  19:54
When you when you when you make this when you look at a decision what Which Which one of those three things do you? Do you use?

20:04
The older feel like?

Sam Fischer  20:06
Oh my god. Yeah. I can't stand that. I don't feel anything. I feel a hot stove. I feel that's hot. I'm going to remove my hand now. But I don't I don't make decisions based on feel. I really don't know. I mean, there's gut there's a gut feel is I don't express. It's unbelievable. In television programs. And in conversations, all these younger people, do even a management manage them, you have to say things like, Well, I feel like you need to look at it this way. No, what are you talking about? I don't feel anything I know. He's got to look at it differently. See what I thought I think that he needs to look at a

20:49
different I think that's an interesting point. What I find with especially younger people, is that they are, the cliche is sometimes wrong, but never in doubt. And I think that when I when I when we manage people, I try to get people away from making absolute statements. Oh, everybody thinks this. Oh, nobody thinks that. Well, I don't know. There's not an answer your question, but you know, I'm talking to now. No, no, you're venting? Yeah. And so I think that there's I think that there's maybe it's our generation did it too, I don't remember. I mean, I'm probably I know it all. So

Sam Fischer  21:22
when I was 23, from ages of 23 to 38, I that I was pretty experienced by the time I was 3334. I assures that I never told anyone that I had all the information. I was in politics for 32 freakin years. And I know I've never had all the answers, right.

21:43
And I think that that's a big change with the new generation. There's such a degree of certitude, even if even if no, no way you, you know what's going to happen. And I think part of the problem is because they're just so you know, every day, there's a new opinion that there's new thing out there, and our attention spans are so short, that I can say tomorrow, I know someone's gonna be the president knighted states, it's gonna happen. And then they're not and there's no consequence for being just so incredibly certain about something and just being wrong.

Sam Fischer  22:09
I, you brought up an interesting point there, our attention spans are so short, mine art is too. It's ridiculous. I mean, it's, it's what's getting better at now that I've retired. But, you know, early on my career, I had certainly had an attention span, but social media and everything else, and this stupid phone that we look at all day is created this environment where our attention span is very short. And so maybe that's why people say I feel because it's what you're feeling right now. So I say I think based on, you know, me being 54 years old and seeing the world once or twice or experience, I have more experience, because

22:46
last time I used it, you know, I feel and I think it's more than you think I've

Sam Fischer  22:51
used it in this podcast, not even knowing I don't even like what did I just say you I think you say it a lot. You don't realize that you probably

22:57
do. But I would like to think that I use it when it is something that I feel not that I like, again, a more of a gut feeling. As opposed to something that intuition

Sam Fischer  23:09
is different than what these people I think they're not saying it's intuition. They're saying I

23:13
feel like they use feel and think interchangeably. Right? Right. Okay, and I just

Sam Fischer  23:17
don't, I don't, that doesn't compute. Okay, fine. I just okay, I'm gonna give you a superpower, you're gonna tell me what you're going to do with that superpower. Jon Seaton. I am now going to make you invisible. What are you going to do? One hell of a question. Isn't that is it? I got that from a 15 year old podcast or this year? And I thought it was fantastic. Because you start thinking about that you feel about it. You think about it, you know what?

23:43
I'm thinking about where I'm at, you know, again, I'm, I'm an older man. Now maybe when I was younger, I'd do something inappropriate. But you know, as a as an older person I'd like to be that's

Sam Fischer  23:50
exactly where your mind went, didn't it? It went to sixth grade. Look, going into a locker. Maybe isn't that interesting? Yeah. I haven't asked a female that question this year. I guarantee

23:59
it's not to go into our locker. No, no, no. Yeah, I would, I would, I would say either. I don't know. I certainly it'd be interesting to like, go into the White House and listen, and then sit in like a strategy session in the Oval, of course, no matter who's president, just how are those decisions being right, that'd be fascinating. Right? And then you scare the heck out of a huge sports fan. So how cool would it be to be in the Superbowl locker room? Five minutes before kickoff? Yeah, amazing. Right. Yeah. Good answer those kinds of places I

Sam Fischer  24:30
think excellent. Yeah, most people want to answer it only lead to bad I can't answer it. i My answer to the question, which I think is only fair because it difficult is similar. Yours isn't that I would, you know, I would follow around somebody I admire for a month and I just get the you know, like, are they really this great all the time or how do they wired or how do they tick? That's that's how that's what I would use it Sure. Yeah. But it's a tough it's a tough question. Yeah. And

24:56
I'm glad we're pretty good at Sorry. Good. Yeah, not too bad. Me.

Sam Fischer  24:59
Jon Seaton. We're in our 22 minutes. It's worth 25 minutes. Is there anything else you'd like to

25:08
add? That wasn't so bad? Was it? No, it's been great.

Sam Fischer  25:11
Anything else you'd like to add about me?

25:15
Good man. And I look forward to this podcast being around many more years. So like, we better promote that thing. Like you told me you're again, I'll absolutely do so.

Sam Fischer  25:23
All right. Hey, everybody, thanks for listening. I have a new feature. If you go to cowboys, not a games.com, you can click on a little button that says support the show. And if you support the show with $3 $4 $5 a month, you will get Jon Seaton any merchandise of your choice. And if over six months, I'll continue to send you merchandise and I'm also going to give the listeners some opportunities that other listeners don't have like, hey, you know, Jon Seaton, what are the 10 questions you would ask Jon C. So it will be fun and so I encourage people to do that. Get her done. Jon's eaten the internet.

26:01
Thanks, Sammy