The Future Isn't What It Used to Be - with Special Guest Zach Adkins

The Future Isn't What it Used to Be
Wed, Mar 15, 2023 7:01PM • 1:13:05
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
george lynch, guitar, play, people, song, album, hear, called, music, solo, george, listen, zack, sounds, guitar player, frickin, fret, string, randy, learn
SPEAKERS
Intro, Sam Fischer

Intro  00:00
Welcome to cowboys, not eggheads, home of the brave, not home of the fearful. The world needs more cowboys and fewer eggheads. We're everywhere podcasts are found. So tell your fellow cowboys, and let's keep the conversation alive on Instagram, Facebook, and Twitter. Remember to subscribe, rate review and share. And now cowboys not a gets. We have Sam Fisher

Sam Fischer  00:33
Zachary Adkins Welcome to cowboys, not eggheads. What's going on today, man?

00:38
Excited. Excited to be here.

Sam Fischer  00:40
I can tell I can tell. So Zack Adkins is my guitar teacher. And about four or five years ago, I was having a heck of a time getting guitar teachers to call me back. But Mr. Adkins being a good business person. And he is and we'll talk about his business here in a little bit. I think it's 30 minutes, and you called me back or at least said, Hey, I'm gonna listen, can I call you back or whatever. And we had a first initial conversation, and I haven't talked about George Lynch a lot on this podcast. I don't really have no idea who listens to my podcast. Sometimes I think friends do if you're a friend of mine, you certainly know who George Lynch is and what it means to me. But if you're not, we have listeners in all 50 states in 36 countries. I basically told Zack that I want to learn George Lynch. And I asked him if you ever heard of George Lynch because he was 27 at the time, he's now 31. And you said, What did you say? You said, Yes. I think you said yes. Oh, yeah. I said to my Yes. My dad listens to him, like, super. But had you really heard of George Lynch before that time? Oh, yeah. Okay. Yeah. My

01:46
dad's a huge George Lynch, but

Sam Fischer  01:47
you hadn't really, really studied him, right. I mean, in the sense of,

01:51
I learned a couple of riffs and some like, right, but not like, not in depth stuff now.

Sam Fischer  01:55
So anyway, we'll talk about that a little bit. But so Zack immediately brought me on as a student. And as a result, four years later, I probably know bits and pieces of I don't know what 15 or 20 pieces of music, bits and pieces still a lot a long way to go. But he's a great teacher and interesting guy. We're glad you're here. He has a passion for two things in life. And that is about the guitar, electric guitar and entrepreneurship. And you've combined both of your passions and created a largest music school in the Omaha metro area. That's called Atkins music. Or what Atkins guitar and music lessons, right? Yep. When you have locations in three, three places, right? Omaha Gretna and Bellevue? Is that right? How many students now 630 630 students in Omaha metro area and looking for more right? Oh, yeah. Always looking for more. So it's a great, great place. He's got lots of instructors. I'm lucky that I'm still privileged enough to have him as an instructor, he'll eventually fire me but a really successful business. So what's harder, Zach becoming an accomplished guitar player or establishing or building a business?

03:25
I mean, which one's harder? Probably? Probably the business part I would have. I think it depends on how deep into either one you want to go, I guess?

Sam Fischer  03:38
Well, I want to go deep, because we're on a podcast. So why would you say business I mean, becoming an accomplished guitar player. And again, I It's hard to explain to people how good a guitar player Zach is. But he is very good. And he is very talented. And he's very, I don't know, Blessed is the word I would use. He plays by ear. Here's a guy that I can show him a complex solo by forget George Lynch, Edward Van Halen, for instance. And and within 30 seconds, he's got it, he hears it. He knows it. He knows the guitar inside now is a very accomplished player. But you do get there, obviously, we'll talk about that. But to me, I've built a business. So I know it is hard. But I would be harder to play, learn how to play guitar at your level. I mean, you're passionate about both. But so why is why would you say

04:35
business is harder. Just say business was harder for me than the guitar was?

Sam Fischer  04:40
Are there more rules in business? Yeah, I

04:42
mean, yeah, with business. It's like, you know, when you first start out playing guitar, it's really not that big of a deal because you're so a lot of times you're young and you don't really know what you're doing or what you're not doing. You're just playing and having fun. And then the discipline kind of comes later. But in business you kind of have have to be disciplined right away so that way you don't screw yourself or like you know, take way too much money out of your business too soon to go buy cool stuff and then you have to like be daily so it doesn't it's not as fun but it can become fun

Sam Fischer  05:13
when you set out. So what's the story your business? What At what point did you say? Well, I'm just gonna I'm just gonna run a music school.

05:20
Yeah. 2017 I got first place in the Ibis flying fingers competition.

Sam Fischer  05:26
Check it out on YouTube, Zack Adkins flying fingers, Ivan is and that was judged by Paul Gilbert of Mr. Big fame. Yep. And he's pretty damn good boys and girls.

05:38
And I was selling cars at the time. And I mean, it was fine. I was making Okay, money, you know. But it really wasn't about that. It was like, I just hated going there to do that. It just wasn't something

Sam Fischer  05:49
I enjoy. You go to school, you went to high school, right to the workforce.

05:54
I went to college for like a year. And like one semester after that, where'd you go? I will Western. I was doing what George say music education. And I hated it.

Sam Fischer  06:03
Why did you hate school?

06:05
I just I don't know. I just hated it. I hated having to get up. Oh, well, the other thing too is like they they clean it up. I didn't like getting up out of bed and doing it. I just hated it. And I didn't live on campus either. So I had to drive all the time. Gotcha. But no, I, I, the music classes weren't bad. But it was you had to do all the electives, too. You had to do like everything. And I had to be there like 7am for English and math and all this other stuff. And I just hated it. And I was like, you know, had a couple teachers at college that, you know, they got their degrees, and they did all that stuff. And I was just like, you don't seem as not that they weren't happy. But it just seemed like that was all they wanted to do. And I felt like I wanted to do more than that. So I just was like, I don't want to be the guitar teacher that goes from like Iowa Western to UNO, to Creighton and then I just teach out of my house. And then I go over here and I'm just constantly moving around doing lessons. Because that's what a couple of my guitar teachers used to do. They taught it everywhere. And they were still struggling while you know. And I was just like, you know, like they're still working. One of them was working at like, not FedEx, but maybe it's FedEx, or UPS or something. And teaching all the other time. And it's like, man, that doesn't sound fun for me.

Sam Fischer  07:22
So how long were you out of Iowa Western before you probably three or four years before you decided to actually start a Guitar School? Right?

07:29
Yeah, because I was working at Walmart at the time after that. And I was living in Blair. And that's where I met Steve. Like guitar tech in my studio. He was my boss. And I was kind of doing really well with Walmart, you know, I was making really good money and getting promoted and whatnot. And then that turned into just again, I got to a certain point, and I was like, I don't really see a future there. So I left and started doing odd jobs and kind of teaching but not really. And then I was selling cars. Actually, I mean, I enjoyed selling cars for a while I was fun. Being like a salesperson, which has I think helped me with the business. Oh, for sure. I was able to, like if you've never worked on a commission or your work actually depends on what you kill. Yeah, it I if I hadn't have done that, I don't think I would have been as successful at all. Yeah, for sure. But I was like, if I can, if I can sell cars, and I don't really care about cars. I don't know anything about cars. What kind of course did you sell Toyota's? I used to work for a Toyota? You'd have to try harder? So me and Toyota? Yeah. I love Toyota is but I mean, it was like, I don't know anything about cars, other than the new Toyota is that and that was just because I was reading the brochures. But I wasn't like a car, dude. So then I won that competition. And I was like, you know, maybe I can take all of the sales stuff and the

Sam Fischer  08:59
well, that that gave you a little more notoriety, right. I mean, you put that up on YouTube and get some people to follow you and give you a little bit of a boost of notoriety. In a sense. Yeah. Well, yeah. Because did your phone start ringing? Yeah, I got like eight people signed up because of that. Because, but but that's from the guitar lesson standpoint. But But what about I mean, why aren't you a touring musician? I never Why aren't you a touring musician?

09:24
I never wanted to be.

Sam Fischer  09:26
Why wouldn't you want to be with your kind of talent? Why wouldn't you want to like go on the road?

09:31
I don't know. I've just never really been like a thing that I wanted to do. I like being at home and doing what I do. I think shy Yeah, probably.

Sam Fischer  09:42
But you're in sales. Yeah, you're complicated. Yeah.

09:45
Yeah, I was shy. I mean, even shy maybe, but it's, it's far I just, I'm kind of a homebody and I don't like being away even even when I could go away from home or had to do stuff like that. I always hated

Sam Fischer  09:58
what's the farthest we're going away from home. All

10:02
California, okay. Or Texas? You better airplane then. And a phoenix? Yeah, I've been in airplane a couple times. Okay, that's about it. I don't like flying. Yeah, I should I should get over that and just start Florida, Georgia. This isn't like flying either. But we drove we drove to California. That was 26 hours. Yeah. It's like, yeah. Okay. Were you my student then when I went to Nam? No. You weren't there yet? No. No. But anyway, yeah, that was basically it. And so I just got a few people signed up. And I just was like, Okay, I know how to advertise with because that's what I had done on Facebook, and Google, Instagram and stuff through the car dealerships. And so I just did that for guitar lessons. And it just kind of worked out.

Sam Fischer  10:46
Yes, yes, definitely. And that's how I got up caught up with you is probably Facebook ad, I don't know or digital or something. I probably saw a video or something it popped up. I mean, it was like glaringly obvious that I needed to call you however you did it.

11:01
I remember. I remember. Very, I remember where I was when you and I talked? Because I was at?

Sam Fischer  11:08
Well, yeah, it would be a monumental part of your career. I

11:10
went there was remember, man, it was because I mean, you were the first person who ever said teach me George Lynch. I've had people like just kind of say it in passing like, you know, I like Eddie Van Halen. George Lynch. Those guys. Right? But you were like, when I tech? I was adamant.

Sam Fischer  11:27
Like, I wasn't gonna take lessons. I was screening you based on whether or not your what your response was going to be. Yeah, it was the proper response.

11:35
Well, it was funny because I because I text everybody first. And I texted you, I said, is this, Sam? And then you came back with some super smart ass and I can't remember. I can't remember what it was. I have to look at my texts. But you said something super funny that I just laughed at, huh? And it was something like yeah, this is and you're lucky to be able to talk to me or something? Oh, you did? And I've made me laugh. And that's maybe I

Sam Fischer  11:57
said, you're lucky because you get to teach me George Lynch. I could see.

12:01
Maybe Maybe I don't remember. Looking at my text. I bet I still well, there are there are

Sam Fischer  12:05
teachers though out there, Zack, that will not. I mean, I think there are schools out there to say no, I mean, we're going to learn we're going to learn this this way. Again, it's kind of my cowboy, not egg had kind of a theory, which we'll get into a little bit. I just show me that. I'll learn that as a result of learning that I'm passionate about it, and I'm going to learn it, I'm going I'm motivated to play it. I don't want to play something I don't want to play, right. Like I took two years of piano lessons. I didn't want to play any of that crap. You know, I wanted to get out of it as soon as possible. But if you're motivated to play something, then you'll learn. That's the way I look at it. I agree. Um,

12:45
I mean, I kind of look at it. Like, if you want your kids to eat vegetables, you kind of sprinkle vegetables into a meal they already enjoy eating in the first place. Yeah, you know, you don't make them sit there and eat broccoli, because then they're just going to be miserable, right? But same thing with that is like, Okay, you have to learn this little scale in order to do what he's doing. And then you will

Sam Fischer  13:07
I'm motivated to learn that scale. Now. Now I know that scale, but I exactly I'm motivated because it there's there's a there's something in my mind that I hear. And then if I can duplicate that sound by playing that scale. Yeah, I'm motivated to learn that scale. And for the record, we really haven't learned any damn scales. But we have we have we've learned well, I just don't know what to call them. I'm kind of going there Lynch route we just we know we've been on a street we have no idea what that street is called.

13:37
Well, and then on top of that, though, is you get that dopamine rush when you play something right. And it sounds like how you hear it?

Sam Fischer  13:44
Yeah. You're like what you want to like? Why can only imagine that? I don't. I mean, listen, I've only have like two little tiny little videos out there. You have to search really hard to find them. But I don't play as well as you do. But I Yes, I understand. I mean, if you come pretty close to something that you really enjoy, it's frickin there's nothing better.

14:06
Yeah, I mean, even just hitting the right power cord at the right time. Yes. Right. level of energy is yes. very addictive.

Sam Fischer  14:12
Like I was listening to Turn Me Loose the other day, right? Loverboy Yeah. Oh, holy cow. I mean, those frickin power chords are I mean,

14:19
who the hell would want to play that? Or like when he hits that really super high note in the middle of the song? Yes.

Sam Fischer  14:23
It's like it hits bumps. You're That dude is like 78 and he's still playing. Yeah, I mean, love it. Very cool. But

14:34
back back to what you said. Like I agree. When we talked on the phone. You were very adamant about the George Lynch thing and for me like I didn't know a lot of George Lynch stuff. I mean, I'd learned a couple songs and my dad was big into like Mr. Scary and that but I'd never really like sat and listened to all of the catalogue. Right? But I was like, I mean, I can play that that's not a problem. And if you want to learn it, then that's what we'll learn. And I remember I sat down and created like a whole or list of things that we could do. And I think it was

Sam Fischer  15:05
Jane tonight is where he started. Yeah. And which I think is it's not exactly the easiest song he does, but it's it, you know,

15:12
motivated me. But I wanted to give you something that you looked at it as if it was a challenge rather than right. This guy's this guy's like, patronizing me and making me play stuff. That's like, way too easy. Because then when you came in, you were like, I don't think I can play that. And I think you can. And that little bit of drive to do it. Yeah, was kind of necessary. And then now you can come back and you'll learn another song. And you'll say, Hey, that's not as hard as this one. Right? And you learn it faster, because you have that little bit of confidence. Alright, that's important. Well, when did

Sam Fischer  15:44
you start playing? How old were you? I was 12. And what? Now, obviously, your dad was very accomplished player and played in bands. Is he the reason you started guitar? Did he ever say hey, you need to learn guitar? No, it was through osmosis.

16:03
Yeah, I used to watch him play. And I thought it was cool. And then he teach me like a chord or something. And I would just, and it really wasn't good. Did

Sam Fischer  16:09
he teach you? Or did you teach yourself?

16:12
He got me started on a lot of stuff. And he was kind of like a, what do you call it? Like, he was on retainer? You know, I could ask, I could ask him anything, anytime, pretty much. But I spent a lot of time on my own just figuring listening to the I had tons of magazines, and, and then YouTube came out. I can't even imagine. And that was like, I mean, you you go on YouTube. And I was like, oh my god, I could learn anything I've ever wanted. Because people would

Sam Fischer  16:35
post something. So I'm trying to think when I first got onto YouTube would have been, like, 2006, or something like that.

16:41
Or that's when it really started going, I think because I would have been 14 at the time. And that was when it was like really, you know, the video still had to buffer and all that stuff. It wasn't what

Sam Fischer  16:53
28 dot a frickin

16:55
so between between 2007 and 2010. Before I graduated high school, I was just on YouTube all the time. That's all yeah, that's all I did. Because there was people just upload like old hotlinks videos like from Paul Gilbert, or Vinnie Moore, and all those guys. And I would just sit there and

Sam Fischer  17:11
watch him absorb it. And so we're but your ear, your dad is a piano tuner by trade. And I just remember my mother, I've had this conversation. But I remember my mom, my mom was a pretty accomplished piano player. And so was my uncle very accomplished can play by ear play piano by ear. And what happened with you? I don't know. Well, I'm the cowboy side of the family did. But I just remember her telling me that there aren't very many people in the world that can truly tune a piano because our will explain why that is why is it why is it hard to because if there's like so many semitones per node or what what is you told me once? Yeah, it's for every wire, there's X amount of this are

17:56
well, a like there's the physical side of it. It's just demanding to I mean, not to turn a little key, but I mean, you got to be on your on your back fix and stuff underneath. And you got to be like, on your knees fixing stuff. And you got to be bent over all the time. It's an uncomfortable job to do physical Yeah. But then it comes to, like, I'm most people could probably do that portion of it. But every get every guitar, every piano is so different, you know, because they have different lengths to them that some are upright, some are, you know, like grand pianos, or baby grands. And each one of them has their own little personality that you have to be aware of when you're tuning it. You know, this is just coming from my dad,

Sam Fischer  18:32
but then you just have to have the frickin ear to understand. Yeah,

18:35
I mean, I mean, my dad does itches, my dad doesn't like old school, he uses zero tools from like, or not tools, but like, electronics or any kind of like apps or anything. He doesn't do any of that new school stuff. He listens to it, and he gets it tuned.

Sam Fischer  18:50
So is that learn behavior? Is that something he was born with? I'm sure a little bit of both. And don't you feel like you were born with born with identity pass a little bit along

19:00
to you? Yeah, my dad, he would take me on tuning gigs with him. You know, at churches and stuff, you'd have like six or seven pianos. He had to tune and he would make me like, do some of the little stuff. But then, while he was actually tuning it, he would make me lay my head on the piano and he would play intervals and he would play and tell me when to stop if he was tuning something so that we knew it was in tune. So I was there's a lot of

Sam Fischer  19:20
unbelievable training a lot of trades. So I guess my question is, did you learn I mean, you can play by ear, did you learn that? Or did you inherit that?

19:28
I think, I think the learning by ear was learned. But the music was just like being musical and understanding. It was probably more just inherited. Yeah, you know, like, I think because my whole family is musicians, like everybody in my family plays guitar. Everything even my brother does and he's a drummer. And he likes what he's a drummer. And he just decided one day to pick up the guitar and he just got it and I don't and it freaks me out. Yeah. And my uncle's all play and my Dad

Sam Fischer  19:57
can you play what other stringed instruments can you play? Have you tried to play I kind of taught myself how to play piano a little bit? But what about like your you pick up a banjo and play it? Yeah, I could. I don't know when.

20:08
If I had like a minute or two to steel

Sam Fischer  20:10
guitar, I was gonna play steel guitar when I was a kid. I was really super cool. Was that

20:16
like those lap guitars? Those are kind of Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Cuz that was some guy was an Eagles tribute band that was playing when it sounded awesome. Yeah. But no, I think that the, I mean, I'm sure I had some kind of like a aptitude for it. You know, but I did practice a lot with interval training and stuff like that my dad would sit there and be like, this is a major third, this is a minor third.

Sam Fischer  20:40
Here's a perfect fifth theory.

20:41
Ya know, your theory guy also kind of a little less than me. But he, he understands it that far. Basically, he's not any deeper. He doesn't go into who taught him theory? I don't know. I don't know. I think he Well, he was a guitar teacher too, for a while when he was younger. Okay. So he proves through

Sam Fischer  20:58
the years, he learned what you call that. He knows what that is. You can hear that. And now he has a name for it. So he calls it that

21:04
he has, right? He has like a layman's term on everything. Like it's pretty close. But, you know, most people like to have a normal human what he says sounds really correct. But to like a music major. It's not really right. You know, that kind of thing. Right. But, you know, when we were in college, we would do a lot of a lot with ear training. And I would do really, really well with that. But when it came to like the actual paper studying and, you know, writing out things on sheet paper and then following it on sheet paper, I was not good at that. I'm not because guitars so weird with that. Yeah, I never really got into that.

Sam Fischer  21:38
Yeah. But it appears that playing guitar comes very easy to you. So is that truly the case? today? It is right? Yeah. I mean, when you were 12 Did it come easy to you? What was the first song you learned?

21:55
The first song I learned? Well, the first riff Island probably no, it was crazy train. Oh, my dad taught me a little opening riff. Well actually rose your dad's big guy, right? Yeah, for sure. Actually, I would say like the first anything I ever attempted to play. Like what got me into it was shook me all night long from AC DC. My dad was playing that. And I saw that he was playing the D chord. And I was like, I couldn't do that chord. And he just kind of should. I thought I was playing it, but I wasn't. You know what I mean? Yeah, I was 10 or 11. Yeah. But the first like thing I remember learning was crazy train. And then it was

Sam Fischer  22:29
the opening riff. Yeah, the F sharp opening riff just that you know. Everybody that's ever been to a ballgame. has heard the song? Yeah.

22:37
And then the other one was just the opening riff for toxicity from system of down because that had just come out? Yeah, just that little like plinky Hi strange explains

Sam Fischer  22:47
why he's in a system down tribute band. Right. Yeah, he likes to summon No. Yeah, so And Van Halen that's your age. Oh, boy.

22:53
Wolfgang,

Sam Fischer  22:55
how was Wolfgangsee 30s was born 91

22:59
I think he's older than me a year. But yeah, I mean, it's those were the first kind of things I learned and and then it was just random stuff. I really liked Ozzy for a long time. I learned a lot of Ozzy stuff.

Sam Fischer  23:14
Jake stuff Randy stuff Randy stuff. Yeah, so yeah, no,

23:18
no Jake stuff because it was too hard.

Sam Fischer  23:20
I'll be honest. I like I like Jake more than Randy.

23:23
I really do. You know, we're

Sam Fischer  23:24
talking about Jakey Lee folks, he just turned like 66 Holy shit.

23:27
You know, I was talking to rusty about that at one point and I had said like rusty Cooley's. Yeah, Rusty Cooley and I talked to him about that. And I was like, you know, I love Randy Rhoads. Like, don't get me wrong. I was like, my two favorite Ozzy songs of all time are shaky Lee songs. You know, bark at the moon and ultimate sin if

Sam Fischer  23:44
you have one word describe Bercy Lee, what would it be to me? It's badass. Yeah. Well, he's a badass

23:50
ultimate sin. It was. Gosh, darn it.

Sam Fischer  23:54
Giants.

23:55
That's a good song. No. Why the hell am I spacing it? It's like my favorite second favorite song.

Sam Fischer  24:00
It's not the one that had a video for Yeah. Oh. It is called. Shot in the door shot

24:06
in the dark. Yeah, that's like that solo on that song. And just, it's just a catchy song. It wasn't even gonna be on the album. That was what was funny about it. Yeah, they put that out that song on and Jakey Lee hated it. Yeah. Because he was like, It's too Poppy and too, right. Like, but I think it's gonna

Sam Fischer  24:23
be all the stuff that George hated. It was the stuff that was popular as well. Yeah.

24:27
And I think that's I wonder if that's just like a guitarist thing. Because we have

Sam Fischer  24:33
well, it's a guitarist versus the producer, the guy the guy that's trying to make the band money says no, play it this way or really that, like guitarist just wants to play.

24:42
I mean, hoppy stuff. Like the ultimate sin the song isn't super poppy. It's pretty head all its heavy. But that's like one of my favorites too. Yeah. But my you know, I would say that from an eclectic standpoint, I like Jakey Lee because it makes me think More on the guitar. Yes, Randy was very calculated in what he did. Well,

Sam Fischer  25:04
he's very theory. He's all theory grew up in theory. Remember his mother taught him theory? And so yes, it would be probably pretty predictable as to what comes next.

25:14
Yeah, I would say, I don't know if predictable. I see what you mean by it. But it's more that it's just calculated, right? Like, it's just, you know that he has a scale in mind versus he's just letting his fingers fly however they want Jakey Lee would just play whatever sounded pretty cool. And then would figure it out later what he was doing, you know, yeah, I don't know how much in a theory Jakey Lee gets, but doesn't really sound when I listened to him talk. Doesn't sound like he, like goes down. Big

Sam Fischer  25:44
theory guy at all. I mean, he knows what he's playing. I mean, I've heard him explain, there's a video out there of him, like saying everybody plays bark at the moon wrong. And here's why. He's pretty technical.

25:56
I mean, he'll say the writing chords, like this is an F and whatever. And so you're like, Okay, he must know something. But you know, and that kind of goes back to like George, where I listened to him. And he'll call something like a gothic scale. And it's like, Dude, that's harmonic minor. It's already got he's, but he's got his own name. But the way I look at is, it's like, the only reason we call like a fork. A fork is because we've all just collectively agreed that that's what we're going to call it. You can call it boom, you can call it whatever you want. You know, and then as long as we look at it, and we understand language, he knows what it is. It works. Yeah. Because that and that's the I think the great thing about music anyway.

Sam Fischer  26:33
So Zack has an album that was just released, what, three, four months ago? Yep. Called. It isn't the future isn't what it used to be. Yeah. And it is a great album. There are 1234567 songs and um, six of them are original, right? Yep. And you can get this album on Spotify. You can also get on Apple Music. Download it is there now today? Now I downloaded that from Apple Music today. Are you gonna get what do you get out of that? Penny?

27:05
Probably. I don't I've never looked. You know,

Sam Fischer  27:08
I mean, how do you so how does a musician How do you How are you? It's different than was 100 years ago. You can't really make money making albums anymore.

27:17
I mean, I made so like you're holding the actual physical copy of it and like but I got that and posters and shirts. That's how I made the money. Fan bundles. Yeah, bundles of stuff like but I didn't actually make any money. I just paid myself back. You know what I mean? Like the amount of money it took to get the album done. Yeah. pay people to help me with it

Sam Fischer  27:39
yourself a hell a lot of damn fan bottles to make any money. Yeah, he has a lot.

27:43
And I mean, and I'm still not sold out of them. But I'll break even if

Sam Fischer  27:47
they also so people can contact you just contact zakra Fan bundle. It's pretty cool. All the stuff you get.

27:51
You get a shirt and a poster. Yeah. And then the album is a it's actually shaped like a cassette. And it has a USB that pumps out super cool. Yeah. And you can use it you can you can use it like a regular USB. I gave one to Gary Holt the other day in excellent. Nice. Nice. I went to the Exodus show check it out. I hope so. Girls why followed me on Instagram,

Sam Fischer  28:11
which is cool is taught by Joe Satriani if I'm not mistaken, I think that's one of the Satriani students. Gary Holt. Yep. San Francisco is right,

28:21
I think Yeah. Well, yeah. Because I think him and him and Kirk Hammett were in Exodus together and yes, Herc went to Metallica and

Sam Fischer  28:30
dice didn't take hold is one of his students.

28:34
I have to double check that that's, that'd be good trivia.

Sam Fischer  28:36
And one of the songs on the album that Zack covers is by Joe Satriani is a crushing rendition of crushing day Yeah, it is really good.

28:46
Thank you seven string instead of a six and it's dropped down Yeah, it's pretty heavy. It's

Sam Fischer  28:52
a heavy heavy version. And the the main sort of debate that has come out of this album, which I don't even think it's silly and I like to play devil's advocate with Zack but is on social media people are deeming him because they say that he doesn't play with field he just a shredder that's all they can do is shred is that right? Yep, that's what people are saying. And if you listen to this album nothing could be further from the truth in my mind I would have now given my I know you would but but I'm somebody who's 30 years older and probably the kind of guys that are giving you that that guff I wouldn't get I would imagine. But as this is simply not true. I mean, on eyes of the mockingbird on time standstill especially TimesTen still is absolute feel absolute feel you have an emotion and you're taking the listener somewhere so I don't know where these guys are coming from. I mean, Zack is he can play fast that we just said he won the fastest fingers award. But I just I don't I don't get that argument because it's not legitimate. But your your whole deal is like so what souls What if I do so what if I don't play with field? Screw you, right? Which I don't that and maybe that's where you and I disagree because I, in the sense of like, well, you have to have field. I mean, you have to take someone somewhere. And maybe the way I feel things isn't the way that you feel things. And as we talked about feel on this podcast a lot, right? Um,

30:19
I think that it's just a lack of knowing what people are trying to say. And then they use the term feel because they don't know how else to describe what it is they want to hear. It just means that's what I'm trying or not.

Sam Fischer  30:31
I think what they're trying to say is that's that, that's, that's not my cup of tea. Right, exactly. And that fine suit was it, it's ideal. That's why there's different things. That's why everybody shops, the grocery store, everybody's gonna shop differently at the grocery store. Right? Right, pick out something different.

30:45
I use the analogy of like, my music would be more similar to like a horror movie, right? Horror movies aren't right or wrong or good or bad. If you like them, you like them. If you're if you're like a romantic comedy person, and you watch a horror movie, you can't be like, you don't know how to direct a movie. It's like, well, just because I didn't direct a rom com doesn't mean that my movie doesn't hit other feelings that other people wouldn't want to associate themselves with. So that's right. And that and I think metal is like that, though. Metal is like the horror genre of music, right? It's dark, it's gritty, it scares people. And a lot of people don't really get it. It just kind of freaks them out. And then they, you know, they Well, there's

Sam Fischer  31:26
different types of metal too. I mean, I would consider myself a metalhead but there's stuff that I just absolutely can't listen to. I mean, he's saying, I mean, just, I mean, my buddy is he's like, into Cannibal Corpse. And yeah, that just well, he's one of your students is matter of fact, I referred him to your school. He's one of Jordan students. Oh, yeah. And he just listens to this, just this kind of stuff that Jordan listens to, I think you're absolutely what a word. I just can't get into it. I just, I mean, there's some parts of it, there might be a groove or a hook, or. But I just can't get through the whole song. And so I wonder,

32:03
you know, but maybe it'd be different. If you were in the right context, you could get into it. You know, like, if you were at a at a show, well, if I

Sam Fischer  32:09
wanted to frickin kill somebody put it in their body in the back of my car. Maybe

32:14
I'm saying, if you were in there, if you were in the right state of mind, then you might, and that's the thing like, I'm, you know, I like Elton John a lot. Like that's where i He's a maestro, man. And but he's not who I want to listen to every day. No, but I like

Sam Fischer  32:28
but you like you like him? I mean, yeah. And he has feel he has feel for God's sake. Yeah.

32:34
And when people say feel, it seems like and this is where my biggest beef is. I know what they're trying to say, you know, they're

Sam Fischer  32:41
gonna say is slow down and bend your strings and, you know, have probably more use of vibrato, slower vibrato, and

32:50
you can invoke different feelings depending on what you're playing. You're in for my my stuff. You know, like Time stands still. That's the soft song on the album. There's no drums there's no anything other than just guitar and synth. And me soloing. Yeah, and that song I wrote when my grandpa was dying. So there's a lot of a lot of emotion there. There's a lot of stuff going on in that song ocean feel motion, right. And then the other songs are not that way. You know, the future isn't what it used to be that song.

Sam Fischer  33:19
That is the you know what that sounds like to me. Total combination between. Paul Gilbert green tinted 60s mind, the beginning of that, and a little bit of rush and I'm sure that's that's from his drum player jump or drummers name is Getty, Eddie Lee. Yes, he was named after Getty Lee. But I can tell I can feel the Russian influence. I can feel listen that on future I can. Yeah, big time is great. I'm not it's not a knock or anything. It's good for you. However, it's awesome. Yeah. I mean, if I could write songs sound like George Lynch. I'd be all in of course. But uh, do you get that? Are you influenced by that? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Russia has huge influence. But I mean, the green 1060 mind thing. That riff is kind of the riff, the riff anymore it is, I don't even know refugios. What is it? Yeah, that riff comes from bark at the moon. Actually,

34:12
I really, I was learning bark at the moon. I mean, I'd already learned it. But I was teaching a student bark at the moon in a cave. And then I kind of was just messing around with the chord that at the beginning, and I moved it around, and then that riff kind of popped out. So I mean, it's really J riff from bark at the moon, the opening riff, really, and I arpeggiated it and then added some open strings. And that's how that first it sounds like, did you hear a little Gilbert in there? Well, Gilbert's always in my plan. Yeah. So I mean, I heard green toasting 60 months, I'd have to listen to that song again and see if if I get it what you're saying but the music girls

Sam Fischer  34:44
don't hear a song that's the combination between bark at the moon and green and rush

34:50
this is it the so like when it comes to that song, like the feeling that I had with that song was just based on the name The future isn't what it used to be. So that I could, you could go both ways with that. That's why the I like the album title. It's the future isn't what it used to be, it could be a good thing or it can be a bad I was gonna

Sam Fischer  35:07
ask you about that. Yeah. As you believe that, it sounds like someone old bastard like me would say,

35:12
no I do because I look at it like you have the choice to have a good future or a bad future. And just because your past dictated something doesn't mean your future is going to have to be that way. And that's kind of what that album title is meant to be. And, and then, but sometimes, you know, you go, I have all these plans, and then maybe you get hit with cancer or something or somebody dies in your family. And now the future isn't what you're supposed to see from what it used to be. Yeah, exactly. And then and then if but then the opposite is true. Just because maybe you were born in a family that was poor destitute or drug addicts or alcoholics doesn't mean you have to be that way.

Sam Fischer  35:46
Is it a six or is it a nine depends on which way you're looking at. Yeah, exactly.

35:50
So that's how and that meant a lot for whatever reason, like that title just stuck to me. And that was from a movie. Angel Heart directly that movie. No, it's got Robert De Niro and Lisa bone a wow. And Mickey Rourke Yeah. And basically Mickey Rourke is like a detective. And Lisa Monet plays this like, African girl who might be a witch, but they don't really know. And I'm talking like, like a witch doctor. And then well, and yeah, and, and Bill Cosby. The reason the movie didn't do so well was because Bill Cosby advocated against it because he didn't like the black magic aspects of her role. And she showed her boobs and it was just your God. Yeah, and he hated it. And so meanwhile, he's

Sam Fischer  36:38
offset poisonous. Yeah. Anyway,

36:40
but and then anyway. I don't want to give too much of the movie away, but Robert De Niro plays a character named Louis cipher. And he's commissioning Mickey Rourke to do something like find find out about this black magic stuff. Well, anyway, they get into like this altercation him and Mickey Rourke. And he said, and Mickey works character said something like, you know, well, what about my future or something like that, and then just as cool as a frickin cucumber. Robert De Niro is like, The future isn't what it used to be. It's like hard to hit. I looked right at Alicia. And I was like, that's the name of my album. And she was like, I love that. And then so we just and then she drew all of my wife. She drew all this stuff. And yeah, made it really cool. Zach's wife is super talented super. And I think some of it she got from like, a little bit of a template, and then some of from her own brain. And you know, it's like you take from what you have. And yeah, that's, it's pretty cool. So and then my next album, if I do one mean, I'm gonna do one, but whenever I do it, I don't know. I'll have a guest spot. Yeah, exactly. I want George to have his guest spot in it, that would be killer. But that album is going to be so I have a concept now that this album is out is I want to do a future past and present kind of vibe. So this next one will be the past. And I'm thinking something, there was a quote that I had heard where it was like, the past is everything you failed to be. And I think that's kind of cool, too. So

38:10
everything feels me. Yep.

38:12
And that can be good or bad, too. Right. So that's probably gonna be album. Yeah. So thinker. And then I don't know about the present yet. But you know, I'm thinking I'll just do three albums, and that'll be good. That's it. Yeah. That's fine.

Sam Fischer  38:27
Just for selling them, then you'll be you have to go on tour.

38:30
Yeah, there we go. Well, I have a show coming up. This year where? I haven't got it. I haven't gotten enough just yet. I had it booked, and then they'll show. Yeah. Oh, there'll be a solo. Hey, and I've got a guitar player who's going

Sam Fischer  38:43
to join you? Oh, Ma, you know, I travel so long.

38:45
I mean, I don't mind traveling so much. If as long as I don't travel to play in front of four people. That's the big thing, you know, because then you're not really good, dude. Yeah, well, I'm actually old school was I'm actually trying to book a chop suey show the system Motown tribute? And then having myself open for chop suey? Yeah. So that way, I know a crowd will be there because Chop Suey brings a lot of people. Smart. We almost sell out. I think the only two shows we really didn't.

Sam Fischer  39:12
Fantastic band. I don't think I have any listeners that listen to the system. But if you do, it's a great cover band.

39:20
Most people have heard some songs. And then they're like, Oh, I know that one, you know, because they were bridge age listeners like 57 or so. Well, you know, that's okay. It's okay.

Sam Fischer  39:30
Interesting. Okay. There's a couple more things I want to talk about. How do you see the guitar when you look at a guitar? Like when I look at a guitar? I look at a roadmap. That's all I'm looking at. Right? And to me a song is just certain directions on how to get somewhere. It's a directional thing. It's, you know, we, we've talked about this, how do you look at it?

39:55
So that's changed over the years. I think most guitar players start off with Getting at it in boxes, you know, yes, pentatonic or something. And then as you kind of get a little more of some people go down like the CAGED system, which I never really got into. And it's not right or wrong, I just never got into it myself. But now how I've looked at the guitar for probably the last five years or so, or more, has come strictly from, how can I take this instrument and move it around to any other instrument if I wanted to, right? So everything is chromatic, and everything is intervallic, rather than boxes or

Sam Fischer  40:31
positions. Okay, and those are a good words was chromatic mean? So chromatic is a series of notes

40:36
semitones, right. So every fret is a chromatic tone. Okay, and you have six strings, so you got like an XY chromosome, or not chromosome xy axis kind of thing. We're going left and right, up and down, or whatever, right, northeast Southwest, and every string gets higher in pitch, as you move up from the low E to the high E, but then it also gets higher and pitch if you go from the open all the way to the 12th fret or to the 24th. Right. So now you're moving in two different directions. So you get two directional maps. Yeah. And I look at it as I mean, every note is chromatic. And then you have intervals between the strings where you can go, like, E to A is five frets up, right? It's on the Earth's on the fifth fret. And that's your next string. Right? So then if I take that logic, if I go to the sixth string, well, that's the first fret of the A, if I go to the or if I go to the sixth fret, it's the first fret of the A, if I go to the seventh fret, that's the second fret of the A, and then I just have that relationship between each string. But when I think of scales and stuff, I don't look at it as boxes necessarily anymore, because I use all the chromatic tones, regardless,

Sam Fischer  41:44
right? Okay, chromatic was

41:47
another word, use it sort of toy by set your inner VALIC, inner VALIC, you know, like, so I seen in intervals, intervals, right? So, if I look at if I'm going from fret one to two, that's a minor second, if I'm going from fret 123, that's a major second,

Sam Fischer  42:02
I completely understand you. Yeah, you're making me take a nap over here. But yeah, okay. But that's how

42:07
I look at it. And yeah, once you can, so

Sam Fischer  42:11
hopefully your answer, I'll only ask you for your answer.

42:13
Sorry. Yeah. I just mean, like, it's not, it's not. The funny thing is like, it's not fancy, necessarily. It's just how all music is because all music is intervals and chromatics. Like, if you really boil down every scale, they all come back to the chromatic scale. Right? You can have a major scale. You can Yeah, because if you have a, if you have a major scale, that's a whole whole half whole, whole whole half, like that's the pattern to get a major scale. Well, what do they mean by that you have a whole step, a whole step, half step, whole step, whole step, whole step, half step. And that gives you a major scale. Well, every other scale is based on that kind of idea. You either go like up a half step, and then up a whole step. So like a diminished scale is a half, whole, half, whole, half whole, all the way. So they're all patterns. It's better. But if you notice a pattern on a map, but if you break it down, if you break it down to the ultimate scale, like the grandfather of everything is the chromatic scale. Right? Right, because they're all half steps. So you can't, unless you're unless you're tuning to a 24 Tet system, you can't get anything less than a half step. So a 24 Tet system, we tuned to a 12 test system in America and in like most, most music now, meaning you got 12 chromatic tones, right, a sharp, B, C, C sharp, D, on and on, right. But in other countries, they use a 24 Tet system, so they have microtones in between.

Sam Fischer  43:44
Yeah, you're naked, okay. Yeah, no, super. Well, that cowboy. If I look at the guitar, I'm a cowboy. I'm like, I gotta get from A to Z. And here's, here's how I gotta get. So here's the road to get from A to Z. That's why I look at it.

43:57
Well, and the thing is, like, I think that's how I get the end of my, like, at the end of the day, that's probably how I ended up looking at it. I just had to figure out why I did it that way. So I could consistently do it. I didn't want to look at it.

Sam Fischer  44:08
The difference between the way that you do it in the way I do it is you're gonna be better. I maybe I'm wrong. But like, I, the other day, I was trying to figure out a song that you and I learned a long time ago, and it was, you know, it's been a while since I've took a break from lessons going back tomorrow. But I, I've tried to memorize, okay, where where's my finger positions? You know, and then and then I'm like, Well, I know what sound is next. So maybe I can just figure it out. I can't see when you can, though, based on what you just said. Like, you know, I mean, like so you could know what I mean. I know what sound I'm looking for. Right? And so instead of for a minute there I'm like, forget the memorization where my fingers are at why don't you just find it on the frickin string? Yeah, and I can't have to memorize stuff.

45:01
Yeah. I mean, you get better and better at that though, like, Well, okay, so if you take like a George Lynch song and you hear a power chord, and then he drops the fifth back to one fret, and you know that sound that's like Lynch's sound, right? It's

Sam Fischer  45:14
called diminished. diminished fifth, yeah, or flatted, fifth, flat five, flat five diminished means to George Lynch is famous for the flat five. It's a demonic sound. Yes. So, but

45:26
you don't need to necessarily know what that means to hear it and play it. You could, you could find those notes. Right? So, but it's kind of nice to know that that's called a flat five, because that way you can you can give it a name of some sort, right. And that's all it is just an identification. So whenever you hear that in any other song, because we've played songs, and we'll go, that sounds like that thing George Lynch did and that was like the flat five, right. And then now you hear it in a lot of different songs there, because he's not the only person to do it. But it just has that vibe. Yeah. And now you know that that's called a flat five, true, but you don't you don't. But why is it called

Sam Fischer  46:05
lying to particular flat five with a particular pitch or tone? Yeah, I don't know what I gotta I just got to search the entire board for it. Because I can't I don't know where it's at.

46:13
Yeah. And that just comes that comes from having the guitar in my hands for so long. Right? Sure. Well, it's

Sam Fischer  46:20
called practice. Yeah. So how fun this is an actual question that I wrote down this afternoon. It's a silly question. But how fun and rewarding is it to hit a perfect pitch on a whammy bar

46:31
dive? It's awesome. I mean, it's freshly phenomenal, especially with if you're really loud, and you got Yes, delay, and

Sam Fischer  46:38
all you want to do is like go and grab a 50,000 watt speaker and just do that

46:42
and it's equally as dissatisfying to miss it. Oh,

Sam Fischer  46:46
that's why I don't play live because I've missed it. And that would be awful. Yeah. And you just feel undock and play as he sings is to me on the guitar, like, Oh, you missed it, dude.

46:55
It's like, I had all this. I was building up to it, and it just died. And that's sucks. But no, it's, I mean, literally, you're doing anything on guitars? Awesome. Yeah, like if you're if you

Sam Fischer  47:06
hit that note, just hit that one note. I mean, George Lewis, I don't know. He's so dark and his humor you don't ever know if he's like joking around. If he's serious. I think he's quasi serious. But he was wants to ask what's the greatest solo ever written? And he said, Cinnamon Girl is one string. And it sounds cool as hell. There's not one person that listens to this podcast, and even you that would want to play that solo Cinnamon Girl, Neil Young.

47:39
I'd have to listen to. It's just one string. But as cool as hell, it tells a story. That's all it really boils down to. Are you are you telling a

Sam Fischer  47:48
story? So who the hell would want to play that? Right? Oh, exactly. That's a good solo.

47:51
I would agree. I mean, yeah, I mean, there are

Sam Fischer  47:56
as soon as almost right? George says, I'm a string. It's probably not he doesn't know. But I mean, it's sounds like it's

48:02
almost, I mean, just because it's complicated doesn't mean it's good. Right? But the opposite is true, too. Just because it's simple. Doesn't mean it's good, either. Absolutely. It's good. Because it goes back to our field versus shred thing.

Sam Fischer  48:12
I mean, what is, you know, I mean,

48:14
there's some times like, okay, there's some in the song The futures are what used to be, there's just really fast run that I do. And for the the egghead style of it all is it's a B Phrygian. Right. And I play B Phrygian. And all the positions going up the neck as fast as I possibly can. And that's gonna be cool. Yeah. Well, but I played it. And one of my students, you know, messaged me about it, when the song came out, and he had watched it on YouTube. And he was just like that one run gave me goosebumps, because it was so fast and perfect. And the band at the end, really rounded it out. And I was like, so for him, it was all had a lot of feel to it, because he had something to say. Right? And other people might look at it, like, I'm just fucking shredded and just shredded for the sake of shred. Right, which sometimes I am, like I do, if I go fast, for God's sakes, and sometimes I just, I just, you know, you got to do it. Because, you know, it's better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it. Yeah, that's how I look at it as a tool in your tool belt, like the system of down stuff. There's no soloing in that whatsoever. So if you come out and see a show with that, the only time there's a solo is in one song where I extended the ending because there was like this kind of Egyptian II solo that wasn't a solo, but it was just kind of a long ending to the song. I said right here, I'm going to go a little crazy, because we've played for an hour and a half, and I haven't really done any soloing at all. So then I kind of let things fly. And it's like a minute and a half. But it's just enough for most people in the audience to be like, holy crap, I guess we're good. Like, this guy has been nailing this song perfectly and I love all the stuff they're doing and he's mimicking system of empirically. And you can play like that. Okay, this guy must be pretty good. And then and that's most people say they're like, I want one show in Des Moines. I played that solo and you know It was perfect. Everything was great. And then we got done with it. The song ended and one guy in the very back of the whole place was like, Yeah, let's hear from the guitar player. That was one guy. And I just was like, Yeah, that's the one guy I was trying to impress. You know, that's awesome. But, but some of it down, you know, I mean, obviously, I can hold back because there was no shredding there. It's just good songs, and they're heavy. And I can sing and do all that stuff. And that's cool.

Sam Fischer  50:28
So I guess I wasn't gonna talk about lunch at all on this podcast. Oops, I have two specific questions. And

50:36
there would have been surprised if we didn't write

Sam Fischer  50:39
as a 30 year or 30. Year 31, almost as a 31 year old. Looking at someone in their 50s me, why do you think me the 50 year old liked George Lynch so much and that style of playing?

50:55
Oh, um, well, it's, it's probably the sign of the times, you know, because you're, I think you're only a few years older than my dad. Thanks. Well, I mean, but my dad, huge George Lynch, and they were the only ones around doing what they were doing, you know, and, you know, you always hear the comparison of Randy Rhoads, Eddie Van Halen, and George Lynch. Those are the three that always carry the

Sam Fischer  51:20
camera last late 70s. And two of those guys are alive. Or excuse me, only one of those guys alive.

51:25
Right. And it's like, Why were those three iconic? I don't know. Like, there's a million reasons why they were but there's a million reasons why they wouldn't be I don't know. Right. It's just because they were at the right place at the right time doing the right thing. Yeah. You know, because you look back to like, Tony Iommi, back in the day. Yeah. He wasn't like a shredder. No, but what he played was so different and iconic that Edward Van Halen love Tony Iommi. Right? Yeah, he was the, you know, the grandfather of metal. Yeah. And it's like, Why him though, like, couldn't have been anybody else in the scene, because maybe there was people playing that kind of stuff Drew, but they just never broke past. undergrad. Well, let

Sam Fischer  52:03
me articulate a little bit better than he did. Why do I like it? Yeah, I think it's because it's exciting. Yeah, it is very, it was so exciting. And of course, that was the the days of MTV when it was its heyday. And you saw you saw these. It was before the days of YouTube or something. And like, I just remember the first time I listened to a doc and album, I, my first thought was, who in the hell is playing guitar? Because that guy is really good. And so you look at the liner notes. That's back when you read every single frickin liner of George Lynch like George Lynch. What a name. You know, Gene Simmons want to turn actually literally change his name to what was it? Like Johnny thunders or something? Yeah. You know, because George Lynch was too plain. But anyway, I thought George Lynch, I'm like, that's cool. George Lynch. He's awesome. But I never heard the guy speak until like, three years after I even discovered him. Because there's no means to you know, right. Like what odd cast and then also, this voice comes out as all like really, like calm and mellow make Jesus I would think it'd be like, Hey, I'm George. But he's, he's not know. Very. He's laid back. Yeah, very, very dark humor and all this stuff. But um, but it was it then you saw the videos. And then you saw like, he has got the coolest goddang guitars I've ever seen in my life. And to this day, I think he's got the coolest guitar parts. And then you see how is he playing the instrument? And how is he you know it because it's, you know, obviously the quote unquote, hairbands, you had to have a certain look and presentation of wish those guys still are embarrassed of. But at that time, that was cool. I mean, I remember telling people I would trade everything I have, you know, when I'm 16. I have nothing. But I would. I would trade everything I have to look and be able to play like, oh, yeah, because it was it was flashy. It was cool. It sounded great. It looked great. And it was exciting. And I don't know how I don't know how else to describe that music, but it's still to this day, however many frickin years later. I get excited when I hear that stuff. Yeah. I mean, well, and that's, I guess that's the key.

54:21
I think the good thing, I guess, to answer your question a little bit more in depth is there was a lot of hair metal bands back in the day that were just there because they look they're well, they looked good. And some producers thought they would be cool. But when it came to bands like Dokken, or even let's look at the guitar players, tons of guitar players out there, but they were like, mimics of other people. Right? But when it came to George and Randy and Eddie, they were so authentic, it was impossible for you to not enjoy what they did. And they all had their

Sam Fischer  54:54
own voice. I mean, if I heard if I heard a randy rose like if he came back from the dead and played something I probably know it was Randy right. Yeah. Uh, and you know, it's funny, and you know, what's Lynch,

55:03
right? It's like, it's like, you know, you would listen to bands like when Metallica and Megadeth like they are thrashy. And then other bands came out, kind of around the same time that we're trying to, like, ride the wave of that. And so it kind of loses. It's like a different reproduction that loses a little bit of that class sickness, you know? Yeah, same thing with George Lynch is that when darkened came out, like, that was the only band that was like, I mean, there were glammy and rock pop kind of stuff like that. But, you know, they were so authentic of who they were like, it was dark and

Sam Fischer  55:35
it was melody with an edge was melodic hooks with an edge. And Ozzy

55:39
was the same way Ozzy has become, you know, a kind of a copy of himself over time. But when Crazy Train like or, you know, blizzard of Oz and diary vase, and, you know, those albums had come out. He was as authentic Ozzy as you could be, you know, at that time, and that's why people really dig into it. I think so I think that could be why like when you were at that age, they weren't for lack of like a better word, but like they weren't posers know your company can you could see past that. Other bands, you

Sam Fischer  56:07
know, and I didn't You don't even know it at the time. But yes, it was unique. It was their own identity.

56:12
Yeah, exactly. And that is probably what has stuck with it. And especially with with you enjoying George's playing as much as that he wasn't trying to be George Lynch. He just was he just was Randy was Randy Rhoads. And Eddie was Yeah, yeah, it wasn't like because you'll hear somebody else and you'll go, Oh, that guy sounds like Eddie or that guy sounds like

Sam Fischer  56:30
well, I mean it but I mean, you can hear certain things of Randy and, and and Randy, to a lesser extent, and Georgia is playing but he's still got his own voice. I mean, he's just he doesn't know what he's doing. He's I mean, he doesn't play crap, technically correct. And all

56:45
what I mean is, Randy, was the Inspire not the inspired when it came to how he sounded right. But then you hear a bunch of other people and you're like, oh, that sounds like Randy wrote. Yeah. Right. Why? Well, because, like, did Randy have influences? Yeah. George had influences too. And Eddie did was big. Jeff Beck. Right. Well, why is Jeff Beck as iconic as he was because nobody sounded like, like, and it when people try they're like, sounds like a bad rip off of George or of Jeff Beck. Yeah, because they're not authentically that. And I think that once you become authentic in what it is that you believe in as, especially as like a guitar player, but in life, I think you could stretch it out that far. It's like, that's when people actually start respecting you. Because you actually believe in what it is that you think and how you do things. Yep. Because if you sit there and try to placate to everybody, you don't get anybody. Absolutely, yeah, well said well said Georgia didn't really care about the other people he cared about guys like you that were sitting in the backseat of the car. Or, you know, sitting out with your buddies drinking at midnight, he wanted those people to listen in 1994

Sam Fischer  57:57
interview he said that's about what he said because I want to get music it gets me off and gets other people off. Okay, bingo, dude, you've done it. Congratulations.

58:06
And and yeah, they hit some big you know, where everybody liked certain songs. You know, we're like Dream Warriors and that kind of stuff where they they had some, you know, commercial success and that was more doc and then it was George Yeah, you know, it was more Dawn than I think. Yeah, it was well like songs like alone again and our he just he didn't want to do that but it's one of the biggest hits I mean, you got to do it. Yeah. In my dreams do you think that was like a last minute deal they made he kicked and screamed they put it on there? And you know it wouldn't guitar solo year for it.

Sam Fischer  58:37
That sucks. And actually just recently I just learned from his Patreon page that at the very end of into the fire solo which is just blistering the very end where he does that? Where the little squealing he did not want to do that. He called that a Tom Werman David Crosby squealing edge. So he was forced to do that by the producer which I find to be is like my favorite part of the song. And so that was one of those there's where a producer helped make him money. You know, sometimes they pull the better sometimes they don't really help you and they make you do stuff but sometimes there's some air that they see look at look up Tom, where when I met him here a couple of years ago and Do you Do you know everything you discovered Boston or? Or Ted Nugent or? Or Leonard Skinner and all these people and he knew what he was doing, but I'm right. Yeah, it's that's it. Okay. Last George Lynch question. What about George Lynch? Now obviously, I've exposed you a little bit to some Lynch songs you've not heard right. So and you said in a video a year or two ago that it was kind of pleasant surprise that all sudden you kind of influenced I would say, like influence you're in a main way but he's kind of seeped into your playing and you're looking at a guitar differently or whatever. But what what about George Lynch is playing is changed or what you've learned from the stuff that we've learned. It's changed the way that you look at the guitar or the way that You might play something

1:00:02
that's a good question. That's probably the hardest question of the day. But good. I think that

Sam Fischer  1:00:11
I mean, don't make me feel fit truly feel that way to me. But

1:00:15
But no, I trying to piece together how I would say it. Um, I think that the biggest the biggest thing that the takeaway that I've got is that, you know, the theory isn't always important. You know, sometimes he plays a lot of really cool patterns, and he just plays stuff because the pattern works and then I'll listen to it and I'll be like, Why does that not make sense? And then I realized, I'm like, Okay, you're thinking, too strict. Like I'm thinking more. Randy Rhoads strict following a B minor, bla bla bla bla bla, right, versus what was he? What was he doing in this? Like, George had a lot of has a lot of fun in his solos, you know, and watching him play them now versus how he would have played them back then. And you've never

Sam Fischer  1:00:57
played so different every no two nights and stay with George. That's why I love watching it.

1:01:01
And that has been the biggest takeaway for me is like, okay, ah, sometimes you don't have to play it perfect for it to be well, you know, enough to get yourself out of trouble. Yeah. Now see,

Sam Fischer  1:01:11
he does too. Right. He knows what he's enjoyed. I've I don't know everything. But I know when he's in trouble sometimes. But he gets out of it. You know, it's so much fun to watch. Yeah. Because you're like, Oh, I think he's in trouble. But then he gets out of it.

1:01:24
Probably just not take my playing too seriously, because he's kind of a joke or two. You know, he likes to joke around and joke and yeah, I like that about him. And I don't know, I think that's probably the biggest part of that school. Because from from everything else, it's like I There isn't any lick. I wouldn't say that, like, changed the way I looked at guitar. But it's more just the idea of like, having that authenticity behind why you chose certain notes. Yeah, even if they were right or wrong?

Sam Fischer  1:01:54
Well, I've, I've made a habit. I've been to a couple, like cruises and stuff. So I talked to other players about lunch, just to see and some of the common things that they say about him is he's got a total original set of fingers. And other things they'll say about him is that he gets more out of high notes. Anybody else? I mean, he's very good at getting the most out of like, oh, yeah, notes like, and his vibrato. So it was the kind of things that other players, I

1:02:19
think, say about him. It's interesting. Yeah, no, I agree. I mean, he just has such a quirky way of approaching notes. That's what I think yes. Is where he shines is like, you'll hear something new. Well, I'll say this, like, sometimes he'll play something and I'll go, I think that's like a, he does something with like a whammy bar. And then he does something with his whammy bar. And then I watch him play it. And it wasn't a whammy bar at all he like was pinch harmonic in the 22nd fret. And you're like, Who the hell does that? Yeah. But I heard it as a traditional whammy bar. Dive right. But that's not how he did it at all. Or I'm thinking he's tapping, and he's actually playing it. Like, all hammer on with one hand, like, what was the song? He's got a very left strong left hand, right. Or sometimes I think he's doing a penalty. That was the solo of the year where you had that rally? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. In my dreams. Yeah. The final run that stretch raunchy, insane. And everybody taps that you watch it, you have to you have to have really strong Yeah. And when I was like, Oh, he's tapping that. And I wasn't, and I wasn't as impressed. You know, just thinking about I was like, Oh, he's just tapping on it. So and I watch him play on my Oh, shit. He's not tapping that. He's like stretching his hand that far. And that's insane. Yeah. And that is where you know when you can get sideswiped by a technique, I think is kind of how he makes me think differently about the guitarist, the technique, because he'll sit there and not tap something that should probably be tapped, right? Or he'll tap something that you wouldn't think of why you tap on that, but it looks cool, too.

Sam Fischer  1:03:50
It's one part of his playing, I don't like is this tapping? But that's, well, that's another day, we'll go too deep into know. Okay, where are you going to be 10 years from now? What do you wanna do?

1:04:00
Um, I'd like to own a bunch of properties, and have my schools be able to own real estate?

Sam Fischer  1:04:10
I think that would be a damn thing to do with music has more to do with business.

1:04:13
Yeah, with from a music standpoint, I would like to be more well known. I think. I still think there's time, you know, to get like an online presence going. I was talking to Alicia about that. Oh, sure. Spending more time because you don't have to tour anymore to get your name out there. And to like, you don't have to put your nose to the grindstone for that long, but online, it would be cool. I'd like to have another podcast or get the other one back up and running. And just meet more famous guitar players that I've already met and befriend them and yeah,

Sam Fischer  1:04:45
Zach had a YouTube podcast called your autopsy. Check it out.

1:04:50
Yeah, good. Yeah. And um, probably we're probably you know, resting iron.

Sam Fischer  1:04:53
A whole whole lot more hits than I do so well, in a lot of

1:04:57
that 90% of that would fret was rusty. Cheers. He's already got that. But I think we'll probably open up with Season Three again, you know, we'll talk more about that later. But anyway, other than that, I would just like to become more known as like the guitar guy. And I, you know, I'm actually been thinking about changing my social media strategy from playing guitar and talking about how can other musicians make a living doing it, and make money doing it rather than working part time jobs and being miserable, and then playing on the weekends? Because that's what most people do. Yeah, I think anybody whether they teach lessons, or maybe they, you know, they want to be a producer, or they want to be like a, like, a show Booker or something like that. I think that that might be, you know, how do you how do you make money doing this and music? Because even if you make half as much, you're still twice as happy. That kind of thing? That's probably my next strategy.

Sam Fischer  1:05:49
Great. Are you a feeler a thinker or a Knower? Do you feel do you think or do you know?

1:05:56
I feel like, I think about knowing a lot of things. No. I, it depends. It would depend on how like on guitar or in life, just in general. I think I'm a feeler

Sam Fischer  1:06:10
people your age say I feel a lot. And it drives me up the wall. And I'm just trying to figure out why they say that. I think I don't feel anything like I've poured my Portlanders, I've said this 50 times, but I like the only thing I feel like if I feel like that's a hot stove, and I feel like I need to move my hand right now. Right? That's the only thing I feel I don't feel anything like, you know, I feel things like intuitively I feel like gut feelings. But I would never say to you, I feel like we need to work on the song today. Like what we're talking about.

1:06:43
Right? I would say that. So I think everybody has like this thing where they know they should do something and they don't. And they or they feel like they should have done something 20 years ago, and then now they have the regret feel right. So for me, I just kind of tried to be like, am I gonna regret this later? If I don't do it? And that usually means I'll do it. Right? I just do it. Like I bought a building. Because I just felt like in 10 years, I would be pissed at myself. Yeah, if I didn't. Yeah, but I just bought intuitive, but I wasn't thinking about it feeling. I put the numbers on a piece of paper and went, here's how this is going to work. How can I make it? She would

Sam Fischer  1:07:25
never say I feel like the only issue like, I feel like this building is calling me Are you?

1:07:33
Yeah, I don't like the okay. If you're talking like that. Talking about okay, then understand that I hate that. But people talk like that. Yeah, this is my calling, or this is my path to manage people that way. Like, I feel like you need to look at it this way. Like, what are you talking about? No, I

Sam Fischer  1:07:48
think you need or you need delivery, you know,

1:07:51
right? No, I don't get into like the, okay, you know, like, Well, I've been thinking about my feelings on this and that, and then they go, Well, this particular thing is calling after me. And if I don't take it, you know, like, No,

Sam Fischer  1:08:06
I look at it, and I go, could that work? I think so. Let's look at the numbers. And then if I get a bad feeling on it, meaning like the numbers don't quite make sense. And I get this like gut but again, that's gut an intuitive it's not it's not it's not using the word feel just for the sake of using feel because you're more sensitive to society. Yeah, no, that's just I can't stand it. Okay, last question. And this is my favorite. There's a 15 year old podcaster. And she interviews, rock stars. Actually, there's a great podcast, I think it's called the rock star interview. Anyway, she has this. She asked Jeff Jeff pilson from Doc in this question. I thought it was fantastic. And so the question is, if you had a superpower of being invisible, how would you use that

1:08:57
superpower of being invisible. The first thing that comes to my mind is like kind of a smartass response. Go for it.

1:09:09
I want to hear it. Well, the first one would be I'd probably be spying on my wife a lot more because I'm, oh, that's my smart.

Sam Fischer  1:09:16
Go to sixth grade. Most most of us like go or not most, but a lot of guys just go like sixth grade. like listen, look in locker,

1:09:23
check out Oh, it would just be my wife. I would just be hanging around your wife. Well, just like, you know, she's like, make it or something. I just I would probably check that out more often. I don't know. But in a non smartass way. I mean, I think I think that I would you know what I would do? I would I would do things that okay, here's a story of what I would do. I would I would do things around somebody's house, that they wouldn't No, like little stuff, like take out the batteries and their remotes and stuff like that. And watch them. Like, oh, get upset about that kind of stuff. Joker. Yes. But I would also do things. Like if they forgot to do something, I would do it for them. So that way they would get the praise for it later. Oh, that's what I want you. I would that'd be sweet. Okay, well, on a similar note, here's a question. If, if you could if you had the power to manipulate the weather any way you wanted to, how would you use that? Right? And my answer would be and I got this from a guy that I was talking to and then I don't know how he found out or figured this out but I love the response was I would pick one weather guy and I would whatever he predicted I would do exactly what he said to a tee and then he would want to test it right he'd want to like there's gonna be a hurricane in the middle here in Nevada and I would make a hurricane happen and and I would get this guy feeling like he was like a God like you know he could do no wrong for years he was the weather

Sam Fischer  1:11:07
control the weather. That's what I would do. I'd dial up my my brother and my cousins who branch and say what do you what do you need today? Yeah. Oh guys agriculture totally would want to Yeah, that's a superpower they want right? Yeah, get more rain or less rain or stuff hold off on it right I could cut this aid out or whatever. That's a

1:11:23
lot more of a responsible response Mine would be I would literally wait for this guy to think he had the power of like the gods of weather and just with him fascinate and then just stop it all the sudden and then make him feel like he lost all of his power so larious that's what I would do. That's awesome. So same thing with being in great great answers. I

Sam Fischer  1:11:41
mean a lot of invisible but most of my guests is here so I wouldn't want it I wouldn't want that power because that abuse it I would abuse it you know I do obviously is i i just hang out with George Lynch for two weeks. He just wouldn't know it.

1:11:52
You just get I'll being invisible. Yeah. Oh, yeah.

Sam Fischer  1:11:55
Let's hang out. See what you know. Well, I do invisible and somebody you admire and like if I'm wrong for a couple of weeks. That's that's what actually I ripped that off from Jeff pilson. That's what he said no way. That's pretty good answer.

1:12:04
Yeah. I mean, I would, I would sneak into concerts and stuff. Like if I was being real, like, I'd probably sneak into concerts or go see people that always wanted to see and not have to pay or, you know, be on stage and just kind of see what that vibe is like, stuff like that. Yeah, what I would do, or, or if I there was like a convention that I wanted to go to, and I just wanted to be there but not have people see me then. Yeah, probably then.

Sam Fischer  1:12:25
Perfect. seconds. We're done. Cool hour and 12. Holy cow. How do people get a hold of you on social media? If somebody wants to take lessons from you or whatever your instructors are? They want to follow you on social media. How do you do that? Yeah,

1:12:39
um, I mean, you go to my website, Zachary Adkins. official.com. And then there's all my links to social stuff there. Where you can just like Instagram, it's like Adkins, guitar, and then YouTube, I think it's just that God kids so

Sam Fischer  1:12:52
beautiful. And if they want to get your new album, they just go to your website, right? Yep, it's all there. And then they can order it. Check it out. Check it out. Thanks, man. Yeah,