There is No Movement without Friction - with Special Guest Hal Daub

Sam Fischer (00:01.39)
In life, there are many blessings and one of the blessings are that you, for me, in my lifetime, have been...

been surrounded by a bunch of leaders and men of character and these are folks that I

gravitated to and like

whether they know

Today we have a very, very special guest, the Honorable Hal Dog. Hal is the former, because I told Hal...

Sam Fischer (00:37.996)
So they may not know who Hal Dobb is, which is shocking to most of us. But Hal Dobb is a former United States Congressman and a former mayor of and also a former region of the University of Nebraska and a absolute leader of Nebraska Republican politics for 50 years. a while. Thank you, Sam.

Sam Fischer (01:40.96)
and you were a member of our Chairman's Club. And so I had to call you.

installment program. was a stickler for those quarterly payments. I remember, so I think I called you and I was frightened to death, scared to death, extremely intimidated. was very shy. Well then under the circumstances Sam, as you should have been. No, I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding.

Sam Fischer (02:37.033)
to this day there are folks in their 20s I see it

Sam Fischer (02:44.486)
just to talk or to get some ideas from a leadership standpoint. And so thank you for that. Well, first of all, you're too kind to me. And I'm genuinely appreciative of a chance to sit with you for this podcast. I thought about.

what kind of an attack schedule you might have for me for this interview and time together. But I go back to remembering when you were with the early political organizational effort with the state Republican party. I didn't remember that it was specifically for that purpose or that that call refreshed your memory, now refreshing mine. But I will tell you that it is really a simple

formula for me. So many people, Sam, have contributed to my opportunities in not just my family life, my community life, my social life, but my political life. And I owe back. I just made it my mission since maybe three or four years ago to pay back to really make sure that I spend time with people who are interested in

learning about and participating in the great American political process. And here we now, maybe four weeks, five weeks from.

important benchmark in our life in America, which is a presidential election. And I'm having so much fun because there are so many younger people, young people, and I'm talking about 25-ish to 18-ish, not 25-ish to 50-ish, that want to learn about it, experience it, and get involved. And I'm having a good time right now. And most of my efforts are devoted to helping people

Sam Fischer (04:44.232)
learn how to organize their campaigns and or for young people that are in high school and college to get involved in those campaigns. And I enjoy myself immensely in that regard.

Sam Fischer (05:03.374)
Thank you. So hopefully we can all pass along. Well, that's what we have to do. And I'm glad you're doing what you're doing to it's a different mode of communication. My ugly face has not been made for radio or for podcasts. But I will tell you that it's had millions of dollars spent television. That's my point. Millions of dollars have been spent on the TV side of this ugly face. And nobody knows me in Des Moines or in Lincoln. But here in Omaha, Nebraska,

That's that that's that's that visibility is there. Yeah, I know. know. But that's fine. That's fine. Yeah, that's fine. So today's podcast.

Sam Fischer (05:50.143)
saying that

said it to me, but you said it to me. And it's something that just stuck with me forever. Now listeners again, again how we have to tell.

Sam Fischer (06:06.483)
achieve some unachievable things in my opinion.

Sam Fischer (06:23.338)
I used to live in the center of the city now you live in the center of the city

Sam Fischer (06:40.36)
vast majority of Omahans who live and work and play west of 90th Street certainly know what that Dodge Expressway is all about. And maybe they live in center Omaha, maybe they work in Fremont. You know you can drive from Fremont to the airport without stopping? Yes. You couldn't do that before.

Sam Fischer (07:08.467)
involved for things to get done. The other project obviously is downtown.

Sam Fischer (07:19.005)
I've traveled all over the country. I've probably been to 40 different cities at least.

Sam Fischer (07:27.88)
How is there?

Sam Fischer (07:31.8)
We had a great partnership to develop what's called Abbott Drive and that connectivity between well, an airport that has been growing and growing and continues to grow. that Abbott Drive connector. It's going to happen. And and but there are people like Chuck Durham and other people who always use a pilot himself, as you might recall, who wanted us to name it. But Epley's and Epley's reputation.

and the way in which regional airports were still not on the map prevented us from fulfilling one simple requirement under the Federal Aviation Administration. You have to have a nonstop to a piece of land not within the United States in order to get the designation. We do not have that now and we're going to have it and we're going to be an international airport. I think that's exciting.

Sam Fischer (08:41.866)
salvage arm and it was Aaron Aaron fair three battery companies scrap yards and it was embarrassing wasn't it

Sam Fischer (08:59.01)
you and I know that you faced a lot of friction in order to make that movement. So today I would like to talk about. OK, that I have a motivation. That actually I hadn't thought about it being named that, but it might be friction is good. Because it is the interplay. It is the abrasive interface.

that can occur when change is proposed.

We all know what happens in our personal lives and family and business lives. Change is difficult. It's never comfortable. there isn't abrasive interface. There's friction. There's a difference of opinion. And it can be expressed in lots of ways and in our actions. But in public life, in public policy, that friction sometimes is partisan, be it Republican or Democrat, conservative or liberal.

urban or rural, with all due respect today, male, female, there are a lot of ways in which that friction is expressed. Bringing that friction to a point where, like in my scouting experiences, using the granite to great the spark to start the campfire. And you have to figure out when you can use that little piece of granite.

strike it stone to stone, steel to steel to create the spark that you can find some wind to blow on that spark to create the flame. And I worked hard all my life to learn how to resolve the function of sparking and creating the friction. Not in a negative way. You have to think about it two ways.

Sam Fischer (11:02.946)
You can create that spark and that friction and it results in a negative circumstance, or can you do it in a way that will create that spark to create the flame that results in a positive outcome? It's very difficult to do. And the reason is inanimate objects are one way of managing spark and flame. But when it comes to human beings that have feelings and different perspectives, and then

bringing them all together on the positive side of that spark, of that flame, of that friction, takes a lot of work. And it isn't just me now. It's an idea that I had a long time ago. How do you bring people together with different points of view and help them come together to resolve a positive outcome? And I've had a fair amount of success at that, and the success belongs to so many other people.

that would want to come together to see the positive outcome from that friction, not the negative outcome. You could have had a negative outcome on the West Dodge Freeway. You could have had a negative outcome on the Abbott Drive, the Stringer Pearls. Well, there's a whole lot of the, yeah. But you could end up with a negative outcome. And I can tell you that I've had some positive outcomes.

But the Dodge Freeway, or whatever it may be called now,

the spark of it in the beginning was very negative. And I would tell you candidly on the record, it's one of the two reasons why I lost my third race to be reelected as mayor of our city. I don't look back on that as negative, but if you want to analyze that election, the controversy over that construction project in the near term was very divisive and it was negative.

Sam Fischer (13:09.72)
Today, I don't have anybody talking to me about how bad that idea was. It certainly turned out to be one of the umbilical cords that spawned the growth and the prosperity of our community. But there was a negative to begin with in the short term. People in public life need to understand if they want to lead, sometimes that spark is negative to begin with and they have to decide whether they're gonna let that spark go out.

extinguish and leave it lay or whether a good idea at some point over time has legs. And if you stick with it, and enough people learn about the idea, I can give you another one, the light rail, the streetcar that's now under construction in Omaha, Nebraska, had its negatives, but it's a spark and it's an idea. And over time, a good idea takes roots and people begin to think about it differently once they see it materializing.

It's hard, it's hard in the word of friction. If you look at where the Union Pacific shop sites were and old Asarco was on the river and now there's a convention center there. But it used to be Asarco and the Union Pacific. If you look at the old stockyards, if you don't have that idea that maybe it's what you see that's ugly.

that you can't get past, but if it's not there, if you tear it down, if you erase it, if you move it out of the way, then people begin to look at it differently. So it is a little bit of friction, but it's also a whole lot of persistence. And sometimes you can give up on an idea when you realize that friction is such that it's not acceptable. But if you can find that little nugget in there that...

People see the value of it. just don't, it's change and they just aren't quite ready for it yet. The other piece of friction is patience. Patience pays off. And sometimes it happens when you're holding public office. Sometimes it's the start of something, but it comes to fruition long after people in public life leave their office. You just have to be accepting of that idea that good change comes in time and it takes time and it takes patience.

Sam Fischer (15:34.35)
second.

Sam Fischer (15:42.713)
I never thought about being wired, but okay, okay, Sam.

Sam Fischer (15:58.946)
Well, are three things that I look back on that have.

Sam Fischer (16:07.394)
contributed, I think, in material ways to the opportunities I've been privileged to have. One was my family experience with my mother and my grandmother. My grandmother was a teacher at North High School in Omaha, Nebraska, and lived with us while her husband worked to construct the Alaskan Highway.

to Fairbanks, Alaska. It wasn't home very much, but lived with us. And my mother was just a phenomenal encourager. And it was during that period of time that she encouraged me to be in Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts. And I am an Eagle Scout, and I've enjoyed my scouting experience. So I would give, if in ranking, my...

maternal side, my mom and my grandma, for their encouragement and

My grandma made me sit at the kitchen table every night after dinner, after we cleared the dishes to do my homework. That was the teacher in her. And she understood the importance of that for my brother and I. And our little farm stood out outside the city limits of Omaha and North Omaha. And then that scouting experience, I had several really phenomenal leaders in scouting. Mr. Crozier, Mr. Davidson.

took a lot of interest in me. My dad was terrific with me, but he traveled six days a week as a salesman in Iowa and Nebraska, and I hardly saw him in my early days. And then...

Sam Fischer (17:54.796)
The second tranche of that experience would be my teachers in high school. I some really great teachers in high school. My French teacher was terrific. My speech and drama teacher, my debate coach was terrific. Benson High School. Went to Monroe and then to Benson.

And that was a really good experience. And I had a dean of men named Aronson that went on to be the dean of medical school here that helped me figure out what college to go to and spend a lot of time with me. And it was a very meaningful time in my life. And then I have to say that my military experience, I had a chance to be a platoon leader, company commander in the infantry, go to infantry school, infantry basic, serve in Korea.

So those experiences, my early days, my mom and grandma, my scouting experience, my high school experiences, when I was a freshman in high school, I wanted to be a minister. I had a great minister at Benson Presbyterian Church, tall, good looking, almost evangelical in appearance and conduct, and spent a lot of time with the youth of the church.

I wanted to be a President the Ministry and by the time I got to be a junior I was carrying a little gun around in my ROTC uniform and on the rifle team and I thought that was great and wanted to go to West Point. But by the time I got to be a senior I had been watching Perry Mason on the little round zenith black and white used TV my dad got at a pawn shop about 1954, 1955 and I wanted to be a lawyer and of course I ended up being one. But the fact of matter is my house kill experience was important but that

that after college and that ROTC commissioning and being in the military, I learned a lot about discipline and accountability and responsibility in all of those experiences. So those are the three things I would point to that had an impact on who I am and how I ended up getting involved in things. I was a safety patrol kid at Monroe after we were annexed into the city. We went to Mountview, then to Monroe.

Sam Fischer (20:09.984)
safety patrol, then student council in high school and college. And I love being involved with people and the challenge of bringing people together to get something done, bringing people together with different points of view, different sets of feelings, and seeing if there wasn't a way forward to impact on solving some problem we were all thinking about or involved in. And I loved those experiences.

in high school and college. And then law school brought me some of those same experiences. The military brought me some of those same experiences. But I will tell you, those experiences I had have been, been functionally a part of my life because those were foundational then to opportunities that came along like being in Congress, being a mayor, being a member of the Board of Regents.

all three of which I never dreamed when I was a young kid I'd ever be interested in or participating in.

Sam Fischer (21:22.498)
dealt with diverse groups of different opinions. What strategies did you use?

Sam Fischer (21:36.002)
May the perception is that you're not a patient person. I wouldn't say that. I would say that. Well, perhaps you might substitute the word persistence for patients. Yes, OK. That's another piece of it. I think you have to be patient, but you have to be persistent. Yes, I think that's part of it. I. Don't like giving up. I don't like being told no, but that's personal.

circumstance I've learned that that doesn't wear well with a lot of people you have to be patient persistent and then you have to learn how to be accommodating I think one of the greatest attributes for a husband and wife a mom and dad a parent is that they have to be willing to compromise a little bit times change circumstances change the pressure that kids have today and society from their peers from their

School environments change and they're not the same as when you and I grew up and when we went through all that. I have a hard time with that, Al. But you have to have it to succeed in accomplishing movement. Movement is the key here. have to, how you move things along is the key. And you may not move it to the 50 yard line and then to the 40 and then to the 30 and to a touchdown. Maybe.

It's just three downs and a kick. And you have to be patient that you'll move that ball when you get a chance to have possession again, because, well, the first time didn't work very well, but we learned some things and the second time will work better.

Sam Fischer (23:27.8)
Well, I, I, I, well, it's a good question, Sam. I would be candid to say, looking back, that I enjoyed being mayor of the city of Omaha much more than I did being a member of the United States Congress.

You know from your experiences too, the issues of our federal system are huge. I wrote over 300 individual pieces of legislation when I was privileged to be a member of the House of Representatives. I authored that I dropped in the hopper with my name first. I was in the minority all eight years. The Reagan years, eight years, four elected terms in the minority. I've often.

I about the Reagan years and I think about watching all those state of the unions. And guess who, how early did you get to the state of the union address? About an hour. About an hour early. Every single year, guess who was on the aisle to greet the president? I thought that was kind of cool at the time. I wanted to do that. That was interesting to me. It was also interesting to me.

to see who else came early. But those were collegial kind of little aside things. Good observation though, you're right about that. And I have a couple of pictures showing me on the aisle with presidents, know. Pretty fun, but I enjoyed that. But it was also a way for me to make eye contact with Ronald Reagan. That's a big deal, Because you usually have something in the hopper. I was the freshman member.

of the largest freshman Republican class ever elected to Congress and was appointed by then minority leader lot after getting rich with Cheney and a bunch of other ones to be on the regulatory relief task force was chaired by then vice president George Bush, Reagan's president Reagan's vice president.

Sam Fischer (25:33.812)
And Boyden Gray was the lawyer for Bush that squared that. And we were the ones that essentially slashed the publication in the Federal Register of hundreds and hundreds of pages of what we consider to be useless and or oppressive anti-free market regulation coming out of the bureaucracy. It was an interesting experience. So I enjoyed that. But in that function of the 300 bills.

you see a problem and I'd go to Tom Daschle or I'd go to in South Dakota, I'd go to Nancy Pelosi or I'd go to any number of people, a Dick Durbin who are still around and say, your constituents have the same problem my constituents have. If you think this is a real problem, I'll put my name second, you put your name first, let's drop some legislation in the hopper to see if we can fix it. At the end of the day, today, 84 years, I am old.

34 of those bills are now in the law. And I was in the minority. I had a different attitude about being in Washington. I went there for policy reasons. I demonstrated in my two runs for the Senate that I obviously wasn't that good at politics. But the fact of it is, on policy, I really am proud of that work. However,

When you get your hands around a problem in Washington and you think you fixed it, it just hemorrhages out the other side of the bucket. It's so big, it's so hard to manage solution to problems in the federal central system for a variety of reasons. 50 states, our confederation, the differences of geography, the differences of approach to spending, very difficult. As mayor,

If Fred called me and said, I got a cat up the tree, I've called your public works department, I've called your hotline, my cat's still up in the tree. I say, Fred, thanks for calling. An hour later, the cat was out of the tree. The mayor of a home rule charter city like Omaha has an immense amount of authority and ability to be a problem solver. And I enjoyed that mechanical and personal way of being able to

Sam Fischer (27:39.598)
be a part of a system of government where you could actually make a difference in people's lives every day. And so I enjoyed my two terms as mayor. I found the four terms in the House valuable. And Sam, for some reason, I learned a lot about the federal system that helped me be a much better mayor.

because there's such a relationship between local government and the federal government. So I think I maybe have done it backwards. Most people say you run for local office and then you run for Congress. I don't know if it's that much true anymore, but in my day at any rate, I ended up not knowing that I would ever think mayor would be a place where I could make a difference. I learned so much in the Congress that I was a much more effective mayor.

and I was able to recruit people to work on my staff to create the teams because I understood the complexity of those federal issues. The local issues are complex, but trust me, not near as complex as the federal issues are because there's so many other players that are around the table. So being effective as a mayor was a goal I had and I

don't know what other people might think about it, but I think I had a great team and we made a big difference in what our city is today.

Sam Fischer (29:14.902)
North the West Dodge freeway I mean there was nobody there was nobody from from 90th and Dodge West the signs went up damn da I mean it was war

Sam Fischer (29:34.926)
What's the timeline of this whole thing? How long did it take to get that thing done? I think it was completed in December. It is. is another one of the things I like to talk about is when you when you're in public office, you should have an objective of accomplishing a mission. And not worry about who gets credit for it. Or when.

the accomplishment occurs. That is, you may be out of office and you may not be present to cut the ribbon, the credit for the deal. So the West Dodge Freeway idea was born of the town hall meetings that I had as a candidate for mayor, where people in the 114th and Dodge Street area were small businesses. And it took you six turns of the light.

in the morning and the evening to get through that intersection. It was so congested. And the businesses on 114th Street were dying. And so I thought about how to solve the problem and what it was going to take. Was it to change the lights? Was it to widen the street? And the different concepts were evaluated when I was first elected and the overhead expressway solution

looked to be the best way to solve the problem. then we, and I knew how to get the state and federal money to get it done if we could get it engineered. 96, 96, 96. And I believe it was. I started, I started the project idea as a candidate and visiting about it and talking about it publicly in about 19, 1960.

66 or 67. Yeah, took a long time. Yeah, it was dedicated. The mayor, the mayor who, yeah, the mayor who succeeded me in my failed attempt to be mayor for a third term, cut the ribbon on it. But it's, it's so where did you, where in the world did you get this idea of an over, over path? I mean, there's two streets for folks to understand that you can now go down below.

Sam Fischer (31:51.75)
114th Street or you can just go take the entire overpass no traffic lights West Point, Nebraska. I mean well there may be a little fortuitous I'm not an engineer and not an architect I don't know design features, but I also was a member of the Commerce Committee when I was in Congress So I learned a lot about highway appropriations Alternative pathway trust funds I heard a lot of debates about

federal bridges, federal roads, I worked on solving a problem in Blair to help reconstitute that bridge.

which has spawned a huge amount of commercial activity along the river in the Blair area, as you folks know, because that was rated the number one worst bridge in America when I was a member of Congress. So I learned a lot about bridges and roads and appropriations. And I think that helped me because when I went to the table with the decision makers on a project like this, they were able to...

see that I knew a little bit, not an expert, but I understood the function and problems that had to be resolved to bring people together to do a project like that. And I think there was a vision. The vision was Omaha.

Sam Fischer (33:06.734)
Omaha grew rapidly west because the circle of 360 degrees was not there. The river in Iowa was 180 degrees of the pie. Omaha was the other 180 degrees of the pie. So we didn't have the luxury of growing like Des Moines or like Lincoln.

in a circle around the core of the city, we only had the ability to grow west. So there was a rapid growth, always propelled going west. It used to be criticized as sprawl and, you know, kind of lot of arguments about all that. But we knew I assessed that the growth potential.

was in a ray on that 180 degrees, principally on the Dodge Street corridor going west, and then what the potential would be for what I call the Blair High Road going to Blair, and then the movement to Gretna. Those were the rays of our potential growth, and I think that's pretty much come to pass. And I don't think either one of those would be what they are today without the arterial.

that had that ability to carry traffic east-west and then radiate north and south.

Sam Fischer (34:31.373)
Well, 204th has that potential because there's another blockage, you remember? Now you get to the Elkhorn River. You got another problem with the hills there and sewage and how you...

Sam Fischer (34:50.21)
think it's doable. I think it's very achievable. I see the benefits but the impediment to be evaluated is with the pressure of growth moving in the direction you're talking in the directions you're talking about

there is significant commercial development that is encroaching upon the potential for that to be a, the right of way to be sufficient to manage that. would be, growth is passed it by I think Sam, but that's my initial reaction. Where would you put the X to South? Where would you put the North South X? you do Pacific?

Pacific Street, Q Street, Harrison Street, Gretna. On the south, I would put the exits at Center Street. That's center, not Pacific, because it's too close. And there is already a connective there. And you've got a big obstacle in the shopping center that's developed there. then beyond that, into the

down to the Elkhorn River. It would be hard to do, hard to tile it and sewer it and make that work. But West Center Road. And then Q Street. Q Street. Yeah. And then you're already in Gretna. So it's already connected. The interstate always comes around there to do that. Okay. We solved that problem. Yeah. That's cool. That's cool.

Sam Fischer (36:31.246)
Okay, so on 31 so the last 10 years I've seen the traffic on that I used to just be able to zip the grab that not anymore not anymore. So Well, there's some pressure that will be relieved although the parochial interest will have to get over it but in Sarpy County

You've got a project that's coordinated now where the street sewer and utilities on the on the east west divide of Sarpy of South Sarpy are now going to be.

highway connected and sewer connected and water connected. They didn't have any of those amenities before. That's now under construction. When that happens, there'll be a relief that will occur in development and it'll be in that grid somewhere that your transportation problem will get solved. I'm not a magician. I'm not an expert on that, but I think that that traffic relief will ameliorate itself when that land opens up for development.

Sam Fischer (37:43.5)
This is a cowboy show. That's an egghead word. Okay. Please define. We'll defuse itself. It'll. Cut it out now, Sam. Come on. Yeah, thanks. How did you stay motivated and resilient in the face of political and public criticism? Well, first of all, my dad taught me.

to stand my ground.

to be humble in that function of recognizing you had a point of view and being willing to stand up and articulate it, but also being willing to be knocked down or slapped around a little bit or criticized. And he taught me how to take criticism. My dad, because my dad was a critic. He was a critic of my brother and I, but he was- You mentioned he was a sales guy. Salesman. So he knows how to He knows.

He knows and he understood rejection. understood how to take no, right? Right. you got to learn when somebody tells you no. That's why I don't mind like you were originally talking about when we met, you were raising money, you know, all you can, you don't bleed if somebody tells you no, but you got to ask. You got to learn how to ask.

Sam Fischer (39:02.776)
Well, that may be true, but I know a number two reason is because people don't like rejection and being having to say no or want to say no. But the idea is I learned that and but what you have to discern from that is is the rebuff that you're experiencing. Is there merit to it or is it overly partisan?

or overly negative, or does it come from a very small number of people with loud voices that don't represent the greater view? So you don't get fog on your glasses and listening to the loud drummer when the loud drummer is the only drummer in the room and if you ask the rest of the people in the room, they would not be that loud or that concerned or that involved or that angry. But.

Also, sometimes you have to learn when to step back. I don't say back off or back down or quit, but you have to learn when to step back. Take a deep breath and maybe tactically change or alter your strategy to bring in some of the dissident voices into your group, into the fold, into the dialogue and do a little compromising. And I don't say you throw a bone to the barking dog, but

It's like compromise, meaning accept some of the differing points of view and see if you can meld them into the mold and to help solve the problem by accommodation. You're not changing your view or you're compromising your principle, but your compromising is constructive. It's interesting you say that because sometimes you really find out who the...

Sam Fischer (40:58.734)
full of it because I in politics, one of the things I learned is the people at the state party, get you get complaints from it's different than working for a candidate. Sure, sure, sure. And and what I used to my theory was the people that complain, well, let's put them in charge. That's I don't necessarily I might I might not go that I something to do. And then all of a sudden they kind of fast majority sometimes are.

Oops. I wouldn't necessarily say put them in charge, but bring them bring them in and let them let them have get given give them some responsibility. Right. Make them a stakeholder. And then they have to decide if they're going to continue to bark. And then. But you shouldn't bring them in if they're barking, if their bite. Is not purposeful.

See, there were a lot of barkers that I don't, I would kind of differ there, just not differ, but.

Sam Fischer (42:07.126)
Right. And they're going to bite you. No. Right. Right. Right. If they're open to being a part of the process, then bring them in. it ever happened on the fence line, like, you know, bring them in. Come on in. Yeah. Yeah. Now, I also think in my lifetime in the public sphere, I also remember we talked about friction. I'm probably a living example of this. I believe confrontation is valuable.

Yes. And when you have that barking dog, it'll force them to confront them. Don't avoid them or try to argue that there's no noise in the back of the room. Don't do that. Confront them. Sir, in the back of the room, you're kind of pretty loud back there. Would you like to come up and take the microphone and share your thoughts with everybody here in the room?

And most of the time they'll be no, no, no, that's okay. They'll go away and shrink away, you know, because they're just loud mouse. But the other side of this, bring them up. That's right. Absolutely right. When we did the quest center, it's now the CHI health center. We did 40 town hall meetings because I made a promise that Omaha's future to a large extent would revolve around

modernizing a convention arena facility. And that came about just listening to people during my campaign. Campaigns are terrific environments in the campaign. If you listen, you learn a lot incubators for ideas and so those 40 town hall meetings informed. All of us on what people wanted. What they would appreciate having.

And the system we looked at in pro forma to start the community dialogue turned out to be a very different shaped building with very different proportion when we finished those 40 town hall meetings. But I made a promise that we would not do this without a vote of the people. Now, that hasn't been very much a part of the political scene in our community over the years. But I believe it's important on major decisions like that.

Sam Fischer (44:23.938)
that you get a vote of the people. Once you achieve that, then you know it's on solid ground for its future. When you don't have a vote of the people, it's always going to be a controversial facility of some. You may end up getting it, but there'll always be controversy.

Sam Fischer (44:41.294)
I don't know. I tell you a quick story. were were seven members of the City Council and the vote was on a Tuesday for the development agreement and the vote was going into the weekend.

My chief of staff was Steve Kupka. My deputy was Brinker Harding, who's on the council now. great guy. Great guy. Highly and I'm glad you do as do I. And the vote was four no's and three yeses. The Sierra Club was against it because they thought the contamination, you if you didn't dig all the way to China, that wasn't going to be a cleanup enough to get rid of the contamination, which by the way, as a digression here, if I had a single most important

public policy success. It was not the convention center. Can you imagine Omaha without it today? But it was cleaning up the pollution and the lead from a Sarko and the oil pollution from the UP shops. Those two pieces of property, if you couldn't clean them up, you wouldn't have what you have in Omaha today. So that was the key to it all.

The vote was on Saturday night, four against and three yes. And there's a certain councilman, I will not name him, still living today, who called me and said, Mayor, I'll tell you what, if you'll let the city council have the appointment of every other member of the governing board, Mecca in this case, like the airport authority, so that the mayor appoints one year, then the council appoints the next vacancy and vice versa.

I'll change my vote to a yes. I said yes. I didn't even take a breath. I said, that's a deal. And there was a silence on the other end of the phone where this member of council member of the city council, I think was banking on me saying, no, that's no deal. I want total strict mayoral executive branch governance. And the vote was four to three in favor. Can you imagine how long today if that vote would have been three to four?

Sam Fischer (46:46.664)
Simple, simple little story that I tell now more than I used to tell because I'm not trying to embarrass that living former member of council. But he was trying to make a deal. He was trying to get to yes, but he needed a way to do it because he'd been so outspokenly opposed to it for a year and a half. It worked. And by the way, he was in the front row and we cut the ribbon. And he's in the front row at just about every event.

at the CHI Health Center now. But that's how you do that. And that was an easy thing for me to do. It didn't change the efficacy of its organizational impact and its management. It was just a political decision of a function that made some sense to those opposed to it, that they would have a little bit more to say about the governance of the CHI Health Center. Okay, I agree.

Participatory democracy. works. Share it. Yeah, absolutely. Couple more questions for you. Number one is.

How would you, I mean obviously you are a leader, or lot of the younger folks look up to you, we just talked about that. Young professionals in their 20s. If a young professional in their 20s want to succeed today, now I'm not talking about politics, I'm talking about business, maybe they're graphic artist, maybe they're a lifeguard, I don't care what they're doing. But.

You know, as we said before, the world is a different place now. And in my opinion, I think there's no better time right now to get ahead using some of the values that the old people like you and I have hard work, determination, persistence, knowing that your time will come, earning your dues. speak for yourself, Sam.

Sam Fischer (48:57.144)
younger generation.

Sam Fischer (49:03.774)
those types of values. And so me being the old studgy guy that I am, say listen take advantage of this because you will stand out immediately. People and organizations are looking for leaders and if you stand up and you don't have

excuses. And you are persistent and consistent and determined. If you're a cowboy, you are going to stick out and people are going to gravitate towards that. maybe my theory is wrong, but what would you tell a youngster? Engagement is the word we use today. But in the old days, was just sign up and show up. Get involved when you have lots of experiences, a variety of experiences when you're younger, you learn from them. How does the

kid learn at home. If you throw a candy wrapper on the carpet at your house, you can say to your son, Junior, don't do that. That's littering. Pick up the candy wrapper or the kid could be impertinently smart and look at you and say, I didn't throw it there, Dad. You pick it up. Well, I know what I would do with my kid if he said that to me, right? I don't know if the kid gets that same treatment today. If that happens, it's the point you're making. So

I say to young people, sign up, show up, get engaged. You may not be chairman or the leader right away. And maybe that someday will not be your forte or your cup of tea. But the experiences you get from participation, not for a trophy, but for merit, that's the key.

You will succeed in life if you believe in merit. It's in quality. It's in output that's valuable. That's the weakness today I see on the horizon. That the participation medal, just for showing up, should not be awarded for just showing up. It should be awarded if you're meritorious. You showed up to every practice. You're a team player. You work hard. You sweat. You contributed.

Sam Fischer (51:11.178)
not this business of you just get there because you're who you are, whatever. Meritocracy is the goal. Those who are going to be rewarded in the future for success in whatever endeavor, electrician.

Sam Fischer (51:28.974)
a roofer, trades, or a lawyer or a doctor. I don't think anybody says they want to hire the worst lawyer they can find or the worst doctor they can find or the worst roofer they can find. They always want the best.

Sam Fischer (51:50.52)
Right. And then they after after they win, they complain about their fee or whatever. But my point is merit meritocracy. So what's missing today from where you and I grew up? Your dad said what my dad said. If you're going to be a bricklayer, learn how to be the best bricklayer.

there is if you're going to be run a start your own business and run a landscape and lawn service. Learn how to do it so that that person you worked for says to the next neighbor, hey, I've got this great lawn guy. You ought to use him. It's merit. And we've we've moved away, I think, in our society today from a value of valuing merit and and success measured measured in

the ability of that person to be good, to be the best, to show up on time, to dress well, to be polite. All those things are of less value, it seems to me today, not because they aren't valuable, but because certain elements in society denigrate them. They downplay them. it's okay for you to throw the rock through your neighbor's window.

because the legal system now is just gonna say, junior, that's bad conduct. Don't do that again. Now go back to school tomorrow and be a good boy. No, there should be consequences that attach in a meaningful way to juniors conduct. It's the only way you learn. We learn by what we see, we learn by what we hear, we learn by what we do. It's only the valuable way with all great respect for classroom teaching and education.

all a part of it, learn by being active. So if I were a parent today, as I'm a grandfather today of six, I really encourage even my 35 to 55 year old kids to be involved in their community, involved in their business, be involved with their family, not just talk. Do. Don't talk. Do.

Sam Fischer (54:05.208)
You don't like to talk about this, and I don't even know if you're gonna answer it, but I'm gonna ask, what legacy do you hope to leave behind?

Sam Fischer (54:16.248)
Well, I haven't thought about that.

Sam Fischer (54:22.424)
Sam. I didn't.

decide to engage in public service and wouldn't have had those three opportunities I've had, plus many other ones that were not elective without the help and support of so many other people.

Sam Fischer (54:46.655)
I maybe would like people to just think that he was a good guy that was willing to help people whenever they called him and

make a difference. I don't need a street named after me or a bridge named after me or a building named after me or any of that. And I didn't get involved in this business for any of that, you know?

Sam Fischer (55:09.644)
Ha

Sam Fischer (55:14.092)
Well, wouldn't that be nice? I'd let you and my wife worry about that long after I'm gone. But I didn't get involved in all of that. I had the privilege of making sure that the whole federal building was named after Ed Zarensky. I represented the natural resource districts, and I think I helped create today what is the NRD of our area here for recreation and flood control.

and naming the lake after Ed Zyrinski. I worked hard to name the federal 14-state regional park service headquartered here in Omaha on the river. After Carl Curtis, I worked hard to name the federal building here in Omaha when I was mayor after Roman Ruska, for whom I worked after I got out of college when I was a young college graduate. I know those kinds of things are of significance historically.

I just really am shy to feel like it's, was, those aren't objectives or goals I have. so, mean, they'll make a big difference to my kids and my grandkids.

Sam Fischer (56:31.982)
It's you know, those are all wonderful things, but the answer is the answer is correct. My answer is maybe I call him like I see him. I articulate verbally. How I feel in a candid and straightforward. I hope an honest and sincere way. And if there's any legacy, it maybe is he's the real deal. That's it. it. That's it. And was never afraid of friction. No friction and and persistence.